P1 Prowler is a fine choice, esp if you go U/B fairies. Also it is ~4 tix and that is certainly a consideration in 4-3-2-2.
P2 Snipe is right
P3 Loggers>Whelm>V. Creek>F. Ground>Grotto>Ruse If you want to cut blue go with Whelm, not Ruse it is terrible. Also you state now that you know both your neighbors are not in blue?!? After 3 packs?!? P2 had an Uncommon missing that very well could have been better than 'Snipe-Shriekmaw comes to mind. And Ruse/Whelm is NO signal that Blue is open. I don't see how you can make this claim that neither neighbor is in Blue(hell even the left is in question at this point as you passed Dowser in P1). It shows in the end that the person on your left was not blue, but i think it is far too early to make that judgement.
P4 Harbinger is OK. Note Cloudcrown is in this pack-green is likely open as neighbor passed Epic and now Cloudcrown.
P7 I like Peppersmoke here. Removal is better than a SB card(albeit a good underrated one)
P8 Sprite is Ok. Note teh late Battlewand-green is def open, but it is probally too late now.
-From here on out I will view the picks as a U/W drafter.
P9 Ponder is a fine filler card-again note Bogstrider
P11 Loggers Tabled!
P16 Cryptic is best for U/x. As for the others Magistrate(Bomb!)>Revels(mass removal/win condition)>Dreamspoiler
P18 Gift :)
P24 Stlagtite is good in Merfolk, T. Sight is meh.
P31 I prefer F. Trawl as you only have 5 Merfolt at this point, and saw very little from your right(no Aquitects, no Dowser, no Angelers,no Unc goodies) and Trawl is so good.
P33 with the sniper in your pile take the enabler in Deeptread Merrow
P36 Sentinals
P37 Again I would take peppersmoke, but Wispmare is fine esp since you passed Epic.
Thanks for doing these as I really enjoy the walkthroughs.
Fair point. However, I faced four (well, really, three- two Dragonstorm, 1 U/B Faeries, 1 G/B Elves/Midrange) popular deck archetypes in the queues, which is why I find this a pretty decent showing of how this deck does. Anyway, I played in these queues on or around Dec. 20th. My next article will be about the PEs, so don't worry!
The constructed queues are notorious for having a different metagame than PEs. People that are testing 'newsish' decks also often use the queue for such purposes. Hence I think that it would be good if you posted when you played when doing similar articles in the past.
After playtesting quite a bit, I decided it would be much simpler to post my conclusions on the deck rather than write out another article.
MGA, in my opinion, doesn't hold up against most of the decks out there. Against mono-blue it really shines, which is to be expected, I think. Against Elves, it did really well, usually winning the first two games of the match on the back of a Timbermare. It also performed strongly against anything snow because of the "Pithing Needle + calling Scrying Sheets" shutdown mechanism.
However, I found that MGA did really poorly against Rock and all decks running Wrath + Planeswalkers. Also, Goblins tore it to pieces. I think my biggest concern is it's poor performance against Rock. I never won a single game against that deck. Rock goes online too quickly and has too many answers to the threats in MGA. It has an answer for every problem I give it and usually rolls over me faster than I can keep up with.
After playtesting Ohran Viper, I had to take it out. It doesn't fit the deck. Horizon Canopy is a really good fit, if you can afford it. I can see sideboarding in Ohran Viper because in some situations he's really effective. But really, it's much better to have a beater than someone who's trying to draw more beaters. That's how the deck rolls.
That sounds like a really cool deck. It seems to be, though, that with the Magi and Harmonizes, you are departing from the mindset of MGA and moving into a different strategy. Your deck sounds like it's more focused on setting up the board and winning, whereas MGA tries to win before anything is set up. Still, it sounds like these changes could make a deck that preforms better than MGA. I'd love to hear how your playtesting turns out.
I found the Drakes to be almost just as necessary as the Forcemages. The Drakes can hit for 5 flying with a Forcemage on the table and I generally avoid playing them if a Forcemage isn't out there. Also, the Drakes have some staying power; I've payed the echo cost on several occasions because the opponent didn't have a flyer on the board to deal with them.
The Primal Forcemages cannot be taken out, at any cost. Decks I play against aim for the Forcemage above everything else, and rightly so. He works too well in conjunction with the other cards.
Harmonize and Loxodon Warhammer keep coming up as suggestions. What I don't think everyone understands is that the point of MGA is to deal 20 points of combat damage as quickly as possible. Harmonize is too slow. If you can't win with what's in your hand already, you're not going to win. With Harmonize, you basically lose a turn to draw 3 cards. With MGA, if you lose a turn you pretty much lose the game. The same with Loxodon Warhammer. It is nice to have your creatures bigger, but for a whopping 6 colorless mana, it's just too slow. You've got to be winning already for the Warhammer to be effective but by that point it's unnecessary.
I play tested Might of Old Krosa, liking it more than Intuition initially because of it's dirt cheap cost. However, I found it to be a dead card in most situations. It was much better to have a creature out there rather than *another* boost spell. Also, if my spell isn't giving my creature protection from Shriekmaw, it's pretty useless.
Thanks for the comments. I really enjoy playing MGA, as well.
I tried giving the Allosaurus Riders a shot. I found them to be a bit counter-productive. It REALLY hurt to have to drop two greens from the paw, even if it did mean a first turn beater against mono-blue. I felt like I had terrific success against MU by just sideboarding in Eyes of the Wisent. That card is one of the best blue hosers I've had the pleasure of playing with. I don't think Quag is even necessary in the 'board if you're running 4x Eyes.
The Safe Haven tip was really smart. It's tough to find that extra 2 colorless, though the Boreal Druids help. But if you can attack and then put him away, Groundbreaker is really nuts. I liked it so much I decided to keep 3 copies in.
Sorry about not responding to any of the responses yet. I've been in SC on a 56k connection and I am simply 56k-incompatible. I'll try to get some replies up as soon as possible.
Sorry about not responding to any of the responses yet. I've been in SC on a 56k connection and I am simply 56k-incompatible. I'll try to get some replies up as soon as possible.
Great Article! The GBR version with Life from the Loam, Seismic Assault, Terravore and Devastating Dreams etc is just called Loam. But the RGW version with Werebears, Wild Mongrel, Terravore, Loxodon etc is called Aggro Loam.
I think the way to 'save' this deck is to add alternative win condition that are really good. e.g. akroma angel, or decree of justice, or even platinum angel, something else that just win against another deck if the tunnel strategy is not working. I'd say maybe 2 card slot for alternative win condition.
Maybe i was a bit rude (sorry :) ), but i intended that this deck is too weak even for the casual room. Think about your deck with nacatl war pride: ok, it wasn't enough powerful to compete with zoo or aggro loam, but it could beat affinity or some nearly competitive decks (usually the ones withouth duals and fetches) and maybe half of the casual deck online. In this case you can't beat competitive, but you cannot even beat mono green decks (non elves)... If buiding casual is good, always losing is not, and tuning the deck so that you are not always on the bad side is something you could take in consideration (however, everything is IMHO).
For example, given the fact that you are going the mill plus control side, i would put in more white control, instead of blu counters and subpar critters: for example more life gaining (martir of sands, auriok champion [even if a bit costly for my tastes], aven riftwatcher, kyiomaro and descendant of kiyomaro]), more control (wing shards, sunscour, final judgment, purify, evacuation), some milling tricks (jace, traumatize, wheel and deal, brain freeze, laquatus creativity), some fetchers (the one from mirage, the one from tsp) and more mana accelleration, with massive draw (tidings, rush of knowledge). So you should have a deck that can stand on his own legs even without the combo done [p.s, reito lantern is better than the junktroller].
Hey, elrogos. You're right, dude. This, like pretty much all of my decks, is for playing around in the casual room. It's not super competitive. I win maybe a third to a half of the time in the casual room with this deck. The payoff is that when it does works, it's a pretty cool experience.
What happens if you use Tunnel Vision targeting your own library and the bottom card of your library happens to be a Forbidden Crypt :))) ?
Or what happens if you play Tunnel Vision, again targeting your own library WHILE Forbidden Crypt is on table and the bottom card of your library happens to be a Leveler :))) ?
Ehy, nice idea, but few chances to make it successful. Your entire deck and strategy is based only on just one card, a card that you could even never draw in the entire game, and a card that needs an entire "preparation" to be (maybe) effective. I understand the Johnny sense, but here we are at an extreme :)
I've played and hinder/tunnel deck for a long time, and it packed mass removal of everything (except artifacts), hondens, wing shards, time stops, traumatizes, wheel and deals etc. And the same, it won in 15 turns and was powerful only against aggro decks, cause burn or control ones ate it. Now, think to try the same in singleton, with just one tunnel, just one hinder, but the same incredible amount of shuffling that non-singleton decks have, and without the possibility to win a gea's blessing shuffling (in normal decks tunnel is one of the few milling cards that do not care about gea'sblessing, cause it can target it).
I don't want to be rough, but this deck has really no chances to win (singleton is not an all casual deck, there are lots of nearly competitive decks in the format), with just one win condition that can be tricked so easily (there are lots of way to counter tunnel vision... oh yeah, even counters :) )
This article inspired me to play around with the deck a bit. I got rid of the Boreal Druids in favor of Magus of the Vineyard, added a pair of Harmonizes. I'm playing around with Gaea's Anthem and Heartwood Storyteller in the sideboard, which is pretty interesting at the moment. I'm going to have to check out the safe haven now, that seems to have some potential.
I have just put together a paper deck using quite a lot of these cards, I'm not sure how it will play but it looks good in my head! The big difference is the heart of my deck is 4x Stampeding Wildebeests, which let me bounce one of my echo creatures before having to pay the echo costs, and replay them again the next turn - which means they will have the bonus from Primal Forcemage again - attacking with an 8/8 Timbermare that taps down all the opponents blockers each turn is pretty handy, or even a 5/4 flyer for the low low price of G each turn. I also have Evolution Charm which lets me get my echo guys out of the graveyard, and Harmonize for card drawing. One cool trick in this deck is flashing in Briarhorn in response to the Wildebeest trigger, pumping a guy, bouncing the Briarhorn and then playing it again to give one of your guys +6/+6!
I like the sideboard... how have the Drakes helped you ? personally I like (Might of Old Krosa) as my pump spell in addition to the invocation.. mostly because the +4/+4 is awesome.. I would take out the conditional cards like Primal Forcemage only because of I don't think they are as useful as you say they are.. maybe I'm wrong. which is why the drakes are in the deck i suppose..
the deck really took a hit when the ledgewalkers left.. I'm surprised that you don't have warhammers in the deck .. they make the little guys threats on turn 3 if you don't have anything else... also.. why no (Harmonize) as it is the best card for drawing cards in green right now and it seems like a no brainer with everything else costing so cheap.. seems like 2-3 of those might be just what the doctor ordered
I use to play MGA a few months ago. One of my Favourite decks! Some things that I had:
I played anywhere from 2-4 of Allosaurus Riders. Against some MU, playing it turn one is gg for you! Also, try Safe HAven - it workes wonders with GBreakers
Actually he did answer the "All dual lands in MED2" issue firmly. See answer to above question :), as the answer to the above question was Yes, Worth was just being playful. We will have all the dual lands... and now I need to buy lots of MED2 when it comes out. BTW, how are we going to handle a week with no magic? I'm going to go through withdrawal.... At least we finally have a date for MOL3. Thanks again Hammy, great article as usual.
Awesome article jamuraa, as usual.
With articles like these here there's almost no reason for an MTGO'er to visit the main magic webpage anymore.
Keep up the good work!
'Grats on the win.
P1 Prowler is a fine choice, esp if you go U/B fairies. Also it is ~4 tix and that is certainly a consideration in 4-3-2-2.
P2 Snipe is right
P3 Loggers>Whelm>V. Creek>F. Ground>Grotto>Ruse If you want to cut blue go with Whelm, not Ruse it is terrible. Also you state now that you know both your neighbors are not in blue?!? After 3 packs?!? P2 had an Uncommon missing that very well could have been better than 'Snipe-Shriekmaw comes to mind. And Ruse/Whelm is NO signal that Blue is open. I don't see how you can make this claim that neither neighbor is in Blue(hell even the left is in question at this point as you passed Dowser in P1). It shows in the end that the person on your left was not blue, but i think it is far too early to make that judgement.
P4 Harbinger is OK. Note Cloudcrown is in this pack-green is likely open as neighbor passed Epic and now Cloudcrown.
P7 I like Peppersmoke here. Removal is better than a SB card(albeit a good underrated one)
P8 Sprite is Ok. Note teh late Battlewand-green is def open, but it is probally too late now.
-From here on out I will view the picks as a U/W drafter.
P9 Ponder is a fine filler card-again note Bogstrider
P11 Loggers Tabled!
P16 Cryptic is best for U/x. As for the others Magistrate(Bomb!)>Revels(mass removal/win condition)>Dreamspoiler
P18 Gift :)
P24 Stlagtite is good in Merfolk, T. Sight is meh.
P31 I prefer F. Trawl as you only have 5 Merfolt at this point, and saw very little from your right(no Aquitects, no Dowser, no Angelers,no Unc goodies) and Trawl is so good.
P33 with the sniper in your pile take the enabler in Deeptread Merrow
P36 Sentinals
P37 Again I would take peppersmoke, but Wispmare is fine esp since you passed Epic.
Thanks for doing these as I really enjoy the walkthroughs.
Regards,
___helper_monkey on MTGO
Fair point. However, I faced four (well, really, three- two Dragonstorm, 1 U/B Faeries, 1 G/B Elves/Midrange) popular deck archetypes in the queues, which is why I find this a pretty decent showing of how this deck does. Anyway, I played in these queues on or around Dec. 20th. My next article will be about the PEs, so don't worry!
The constructed queues are notorious for having a different metagame than PEs. People that are testing 'newsish' decks also often use the queue for such purposes. Hence I think that it would be good if you posted when you played when doing similar articles in the past.
After playtesting quite a bit, I decided it would be much simpler to post my conclusions on the deck rather than write out another article.
MGA, in my opinion, doesn't hold up against most of the decks out there. Against mono-blue it really shines, which is to be expected, I think. Against Elves, it did really well, usually winning the first two games of the match on the back of a Timbermare. It also performed strongly against anything snow because of the "Pithing Needle + calling Scrying Sheets" shutdown mechanism.
However, I found that MGA did really poorly against Rock and all decks running Wrath + Planeswalkers. Also, Goblins tore it to pieces. I think my biggest concern is it's poor performance against Rock. I never won a single game against that deck. Rock goes online too quickly and has too many answers to the threats in MGA. It has an answer for every problem I give it and usually rolls over me faster than I can keep up with.
After playtesting Ohran Viper, I had to take it out. It doesn't fit the deck. Horizon Canopy is a really good fit, if you can afford it. I can see sideboarding in Ohran Viper because in some situations he's really effective. But really, it's much better to have a beater than someone who's trying to draw more beaters. That's how the deck rolls.
That sounds like a really cool deck. It seems to be, though, that with the Magi and Harmonizes, you are departing from the mindset of MGA and moving into a different strategy. Your deck sounds like it's more focused on setting up the board and winning, whereas MGA tries to win before anything is set up. Still, it sounds like these changes could make a deck that preforms better than MGA. I'd love to hear how your playtesting turns out.
I found the Drakes to be almost just as necessary as the Forcemages. The Drakes can hit for 5 flying with a Forcemage on the table and I generally avoid playing them if a Forcemage isn't out there. Also, the Drakes have some staying power; I've payed the echo cost on several occasions because the opponent didn't have a flyer on the board to deal with them.
The Primal Forcemages cannot be taken out, at any cost. Decks I play against aim for the Forcemage above everything else, and rightly so. He works too well in conjunction with the other cards.
Harmonize and Loxodon Warhammer keep coming up as suggestions. What I don't think everyone understands is that the point of MGA is to deal 20 points of combat damage as quickly as possible. Harmonize is too slow. If you can't win with what's in your hand already, you're not going to win. With Harmonize, you basically lose a turn to draw 3 cards. With MGA, if you lose a turn you pretty much lose the game. The same with Loxodon Warhammer. It is nice to have your creatures bigger, but for a whopping 6 colorless mana, it's just too slow. You've got to be winning already for the Warhammer to be effective but by that point it's unnecessary.
I play tested Might of Old Krosa, liking it more than Intuition initially because of it's dirt cheap cost. However, I found it to be a dead card in most situations. It was much better to have a creature out there rather than *another* boost spell. Also, if my spell isn't giving my creature protection from Shriekmaw, it's pretty useless.
Thanks for the comments. I really enjoy playing MGA, as well.
I tried giving the Allosaurus Riders a shot. I found them to be a bit counter-productive. It REALLY hurt to have to drop two greens from the paw, even if it did mean a first turn beater against mono-blue. I felt like I had terrific success against MU by just sideboarding in Eyes of the Wisent. That card is one of the best blue hosers I've had the pleasure of playing with. I don't think Quag is even necessary in the 'board if you're running 4x Eyes.
The Safe Haven tip was really smart. It's tough to find that extra 2 colorless, though the Boreal Druids help. But if you can attack and then put him away, Groundbreaker is really nuts. I liked it so much I decided to keep 3 copies in.
Sorry about not responding to any of the responses yet. I've been in SC on a 56k connection and I am simply 56k-incompatible. I'll try to get some replies up as soon as possible.
Sorry about not responding to any of the responses yet. I've been in SC on a 56k connection and I am simply 56k-incompatible. I'll try to get some replies up as soon as possible.
Great Article! The GBR version with Life from the Loam, Seismic Assault, Terravore and Devastating Dreams etc is just called Loam. But the RGW version with Werebears, Wild Mongrel, Terravore, Loxodon etc is called Aggro Loam.
Nice Magic twist on an old classic rhyme
Nice deck. A few of the couplets don't scan, but all in all this was really funny.
I think the way to 'save' this deck is to add alternative win condition that are really good. e.g. akroma angel, or decree of justice, or even platinum angel, something else that just win against another deck if the tunnel strategy is not working. I'd say maybe 2 card slot for alternative win condition.
Maybe i was a bit rude (sorry :) ), but i intended that this deck is too weak even for the casual room. Think about your deck with nacatl war pride: ok, it wasn't enough powerful to compete with zoo or aggro loam, but it could beat affinity or some nearly competitive decks (usually the ones withouth duals and fetches) and maybe half of the casual deck online. In this case you can't beat competitive, but you cannot even beat mono green decks (non elves)... If buiding casual is good, always losing is not, and tuning the deck so that you are not always on the bad side is something you could take in consideration (however, everything is IMHO).
For example, given the fact that you are going the mill plus control side, i would put in more white control, instead of blu counters and subpar critters: for example more life gaining (martir of sands, auriok champion [even if a bit costly for my tastes], aven riftwatcher, kyiomaro and descendant of kiyomaro]), more control (wing shards, sunscour, final judgment, purify, evacuation), some milling tricks (jace, traumatize, wheel and deal, brain freeze, laquatus creativity), some fetchers (the one from mirage, the one from tsp) and more mana accelleration, with massive draw (tidings, rush of knowledge). So you should have a deck that can stand on his own legs even without the combo done [p.s, reito lantern is better than the junktroller].
Relearn from Weatherlight would be a way to get they key card back if countered.
1 copy of Mystical Tutor would probably be worth the $5 too.
Hey, elrogos. You're right, dude. This, like pretty much all of my decks, is for playing around in the casual room. It's not super competitive. I win maybe a third to a half of the time in the casual room with this deck. The payoff is that when it does works, it's a pretty cool experience.
Lord Erman, that's an interesting idea. I'm not real familiar with Forbidden Crypt. It might be fun to try that out.
Nice idea!
What happens if you use Tunnel Vision targeting your own library and the bottom card of your library happens to be a Forbidden Crypt :))) ?
Or what happens if you play Tunnel Vision, again targeting your own library WHILE Forbidden Crypt is on table and the bottom card of your library happens to be a Leveler :))) ?
Just some thoughts...
Ehy, nice idea, but few chances to make it successful. Your entire deck and strategy is based only on just one card, a card that you could even never draw in the entire game, and a card that needs an entire "preparation" to be (maybe) effective. I understand the Johnny sense, but here we are at an extreme :)
I've played and hinder/tunnel deck for a long time, and it packed mass removal of everything (except artifacts), hondens, wing shards, time stops, traumatizes, wheel and deals etc. And the same, it won in 15 turns and was powerful only against aggro decks, cause burn or control ones ate it. Now, think to try the same in singleton, with just one tunnel, just one hinder, but the same incredible amount of shuffling that non-singleton decks have, and without the possibility to win a gea's blessing shuffling (in normal decks tunnel is one of the few milling cards that do not care about gea'sblessing, cause it can target it).
I don't want to be rough, but this deck has really no chances to win (singleton is not an all casual deck, there are lots of nearly competitive decks in the format), with just one win condition that can be tricked so easily (there are lots of way to counter tunnel vision... oh yeah, even counters :) )
This article inspired me to play around with the deck a bit. I got rid of the Boreal Druids in favor of Magus of the Vineyard, added a pair of Harmonizes. I'm playing around with Gaea's Anthem and Heartwood Storyteller in the sideboard, which is pretty interesting at the moment. I'm going to have to check out the safe haven now, that seems to have some potential.
I have just put together a paper deck using quite a lot of these cards, I'm not sure how it will play but it looks good in my head! The big difference is the heart of my deck is 4x Stampeding Wildebeests, which let me bounce one of my echo creatures before having to pay the echo costs, and replay them again the next turn - which means they will have the bonus from Primal Forcemage again - attacking with an 8/8 Timbermare that taps down all the opponents blockers each turn is pretty handy, or even a 5/4 flyer for the low low price of G each turn. I also have Evolution Charm which lets me get my echo guys out of the graveyard, and Harmonize for card drawing. One cool trick in this deck is flashing in Briarhorn in response to the Wildebeest trigger, pumping a guy, bouncing the Briarhorn and then playing it again to give one of your guys +6/+6!
I like the sideboard... how have the Drakes helped you ? personally I like (Might of Old Krosa) as my pump spell in addition to the invocation.. mostly because the +4/+4 is awesome.. I would take out the conditional cards like Primal Forcemage only because of I don't think they are as useful as you say they are.. maybe I'm wrong. which is why the drakes are in the deck i suppose..
the deck really took a hit when the ledgewalkers left.. I'm surprised that you don't have warhammers in the deck .. they make the little guys threats on turn 3 if you don't have anything else... also.. why no (Harmonize) as it is the best card for drawing cards in green right now and it seems like a no brainer with everything else costing so cheap.. seems like 2-3 of those might be just what the doctor ordered
I use to play MGA a few months ago. One of my Favourite decks! Some things that I had:
I played anywhere from 2-4 of Allosaurus Riders. Against some MU, playing it turn one is gg for you! Also, try Safe HAven - it workes wonders with GBreakers
Actually he did answer the "All dual lands in MED2" issue firmly. See answer to above question :), as the answer to the above question was Yes, Worth was just being playful. We will have all the dual lands... and now I need to buy lots of MED2 when it comes out. BTW, how are we going to handle a week with no magic? I'm going to go through withdrawal.... At least we finally have a date for MOL3. Thanks again Hammy, great article as usual.