Great article! I didn't disagree with anything that I saw.
I saw that you have Bone to Ash rated as unplayable. I am not sure that I agree. I started out the format feeling that way, but as I've been able to play it more, I've grown to like it. A lot of times I will side it out after Game 1 unless I see a big bomb that I want to have it for.
Yeah, blue wasn't open but I was too far in to switch out I think. I wanted to make Skilled Animator and Sai, Master Thopterist work but it didn't come together at all. In hindsight I should have chosen another color.
Great article. I wouldn't call Eidolon a great card but it certainly brings a certain archetype to life. And you describe that archetype beautifully. Nice bit of back history to go with it.
1. If you could choose 8 cards in the sideboard dedicated to the aggro matchups, what 8 cards would you recommend to us and which 8 cards from the main do you recommend we take out (let's say against BR Aggro)?
2. For the purpose of your choice above, could I suggest you assume that your aggro opponent will remain as low-to-the-ground as possible post-board rather than to increase his curve (which I think would be a mistake and one which most decent aggro players would probably not fall into when facing against this Taking Turns deck).
Thanks for all of this great content! I've only been able to watch the first draft so far.
It looks to me like you shipped a pretty good black deck. I don't think blue was really very open. I think my choice would have been black/green in this draft. At what point were you pretty sure that you wanted to go into blue?
One thing I am getting from this format is that the archetype cards are great if you are solidly in the archetype, but it can be difficult to take some of the pieces and hope to draft your way into it. I am personally ending up with a lot of "good stuff" decks, even when the archetype for the color pair suggests something more synergistic.
I didn't think about that part of it too much. I did start him Game 1, and just thought that he's a little inefficient but if I did draw an aura, that would be value. I think you're on to something, though. Especially if you play him in Game 1, one strategy might be to side him out (I did this often). Opponent may hold removal for him. Similar to what I tend to do with counterspells.
It's mostly about it's stats rather than it's ability. The 2/5 blocks, kills and survives against all the x/2s such as Boggart Brute, Onakke Ogre and Rhox Oracle.
Correct. I've been asked that on other platforms today as well. I have been finding that Reclamation Sage wheels for me. I'm also not totally on board with it being main deckable at this point.
In fact, in the pick you are referring to, I would have taken Shock, Runic Armasaur and Aven Wind Mage over the Reclamation Sage.
But, then, it's also hard to argue with Ben Stark lol
Would you consider playing Druid of Horns without very many Auras as sort of a bluff? The druid is very annoying so I always try to deal with it as early as possible when my opponent plays it. Maybe it would be more of a bluff in sealed?
I noted that BenS on CF did some P1P1 examples. He also had the choice between Shock and Reclamation Sage as in your P1. He ended up taking the Reclamation Sage. It seems like a card you did not really consider as a first pick?
Very nice! After reviewing the picks a couple of times, there is only one question that I had.
Did you consider Skyrider Patrol at P2P1? I know he is not as good as a splash, but still a strong card. Your deck as is was very streamlined and obviously worked well for you, but I'd like to see what you thought here.
I generally consider picks 4-6 to be the key picks, maybe even more important than the first 3 picks, because this is usually where I get a sense of what is open and what may not be.
I would say Modern as a format is not agreeable to either an aspiring professional Magic player nor a true professional Magic player due to the inherent variance of the format. It's hard to feel good about your career/financial aspirations when you're relying on something as unreliable as Modern.
Variance however isn't unhealthy (generally speaking) and for the average player opens up tons of opportunities for deck design and play style (even if those ideas never become truly competitive).
I agree, Modern isn't for everyone. Players who enjoy the concept of a metagame and making informed decisions based on that will find Modern unpleasant to play. Players who embrace/accept the inherent variance will at the very least find it tolerable to play, and possibly enjoy the "openness" of it.
I was reading some of your other comments, one word, aggressive...you're a spike :) I'd say you're more of a Johnny, but then I've known you for a while, and I think lacking outside influence you'd tend to play the game your way, and indeed even writing articles like this belies that you're, as a matter of course, likely not a spike because you're seeking to inform for the purpose of possible change (and I know you don't get paid all that much to write these, really just enough to compensate for time and keep on playing in the digital space)...Spike, he don't give an S about that, he just jams the best cards, if there's a set of unknown best cards he'll jam those, if the best set of cards is known then he'll jam those and build his SB to win the mirror, doesn't matter what cards--as long as they're the best on any given day :) (Dimitri B. "I hate boogles"--rest is in the history book)
What's interesting to me, beneath some of the more emotional and colorful language of your The [sic] Facebook comments, is that you're really saying the same things as some of your commentors, but one format prior in transitional phase; ie, we're talking about gouging standard prices vice a more stable modern field with higher overhead cost but higher (per card) long term investment value [this argument continues its natural course to older formats, so despite elevated overhead, general stability {even greater stability} is there unless some horrific tragedy befalls the game]. Money always seems to come into play in these arguments, but is frankly moot for the purposes of objective assessment of the independent quality of a format, unless that is you're talking about prospective growth of the format, in which case this becomes more necessary to understand. But, as this is meta data, and not per se a measure of the format's quality as a stand alone "product" it always seems out of place when the argument goes there.
I know you own a set of power, but I also know you don't bath in shredded lotus petals and the blood of the innocent every night (or maybe you do, pray tell) and that alot of that came from scrapping your way through games and the slow grind of acquisition, and while I wouldn't call Vintage/Legacy staples bearer bonds [again sic, see I'm old folks...get over it :P], they're generally a very stable investment assuming you take proper care of them. So at the end of the day, if you do it right, you're really just transferring wealth from one means [nationally or internationally recognized fiat to another means, albeit niche, but still solid] to another, especially the further back you go in the game and the more stable it becomes, so despite formats becoming less fluid as you go back in time, you also get a more solid investment at the cost of initial overhead...so I'll never understand the money debate, it might as well be "why do you have more money than me?"...and it's another indicator of the natural course for long term players to invest in the game's history, the base is stable from multiple perspectives, gameplay, return on investment, etc.
The funny thing is, this is the same rationale that drives folks from initial entry constructed in standard, into modern.
All of that said, I don't think investment cost for players has any basis in selecting PT formats, nor should player (professional or otherwise) format preference, unless that is it drives one very important thing: the bottom line. WoTC should, and I assume does (but that could get me in trouble), select the format that will best drive sales of their product in the current production cycle...ie they shouldn't care about secondary sealed and singles product (for this specific endeavor), but should maximize sales of the game currently in print and or promote upcoming print cycles. This has historically been best done by playing, professionally, the format assured to have cards 100% in print, ie standard. When they printed dud sets they even Homedicapped (look it up) to ensure their current print cycle saw play on ESPN 20 (the Ocho, or something) and coverage in the pages of Scry, Inquest.
So, I think there's alot that folks can agree on, from a PT format selection standpoint, but I think sometimes the rationale that leads there diverges. I don't think you're saying that Legacy or Vintage should be played on the PT, but I think moreso what you're alluding to is that Modern meets similar criteria for a format not most optimal for professional play or based upon market, consumer trending only played periodically to augment promotion and diversity of the game...but if you can sell it, obviously standard is where WoTC (and all the folks paid by them) make the most money. Despite that, the exhaust phase of modern for a life cycle player complimented by a desire to invest in the more stable base of the game, from both a gameplay and monetary standpoint is what drives folks backward in time the more committed they get to the game.
Felt like sharing these few thoughts and possibly reopening some of The Facebook comments for discussion; to either be proven a fool or to open meaningful discourse--we'll see which (I'm so excited :P).
"(although at this point boogles may be a better bet :P; which is great, because watching some of the most skilled pilots in the world get beaten to death or beating down with bargain bin rare auras is a sight :P)"
"Modern is a format that is unrivaled in strategic diversity, excepting possibly Legacy with the recent banning of Deathrite Shaman. This transitional format is well suited for veterans and newly minted eternal players alike, due to the depth of viable, strong decks with varied levels of sophistication in piloting. Despite the depth of varied archetypes available in this format, long time players of this format will tend to transition to "earlier" formats, legacy and vintage, this shift, phenomenon is likely due to the more stable metagame in the older formats. One of the key deficiets of Modern is that despite a wide range of playable decks, the format enables player exhaust relatively quickly--often highly experienced players can find frustration in it, like most wide formats, the meta can be difficult to project, and the rewards for effort in deck construction can be washed away very quickly due a series of bad matchups, as formats of this width tend to be difficult to project and due to their raw size have many unforgiving and ill-favored matchups."
Believe this is my take I offered you when we were chatting before this article went up, and at least in my humble opinion is still true. Wanted to share how I viewed the format for the readership, although the only person I'm likely to play in the format at any regularity is you (@stsung), I used to play it a decent bit. Agreed, professional players tend to dislike this format, because the variance of it is exceedingly high from both an independent game perspective and a wide meta perspective, that's why I always say if I had to play a game of modern and my life depended on it, count me in on affinity (although at this point boogles may be a better bet :P; which is great, because watching some of the most skilled pilots in the world get beaten to death or beating down with bargain bin rare auras is a sight :P).
What should be changed about modern, likely very little, it's the bridge format, and it needs to stay amorphous. How often should it be played as a professional format, as little as possible and only to whet the appetites of the folks who love it and buy boosters, no more and no less, but everyone's got to get paid from WoTC down to the professionals helping highlight the product.
Yes, I think that this kind of sums it up. Some players should accept that Modern is not for them and they shouldn't try to make Modern good for them. We either adapt or not and that choice is ours. When we don't have a choice and have to play competitive events in it though, that's when problems arises and I guess this is one of the reasons WotC decided to stop doing Modern PTs in the first place. We got one back since Modern is so popular, but it is not among the competitive players where the popularity lies.
I don't really agree with the aspect of all archetypes but for that I'd have to write a long elaborate article to show you what I have in mind...You are right that we still have a wide range of archetypes we can play, we'll just be punished for our choice in some cases.
Banning cards is something that shouldn't really be happening, we should be given answers so we can fix the format ourselves by coming with ideas how to fight what we can encounter in the format.
Great article! I didn't disagree with anything that I saw.
I saw that you have Bone to Ash rated as unplayable. I am not sure that I agree. I started out the format feeling that way, but as I've been able to play it more, I've grown to like it. A lot of times I will side it out after Game 1 unless I see a big bomb that I want to have it for.
Yeah, blue wasn't open but I was too far in to switch out I think. I wanted to make Skilled Animator and Sai, Master Thopterist work but it didn't come together at all. In hindsight I should have chosen another color.
Great article. I wouldn't call Eidolon a great card but it certainly brings a certain archetype to life. And you describe that archetype beautifully. Nice bit of back history to go with it.
The older the cards are the more sense they make, the newer ones are complete dribble often.
Wotc will make an artifact instant within 4 years, whats the point of that ?
There was a miscommunication today, Eidolon of Blossoms was spoiled a day early and is part of the bant enchantments deck.
I can only think of making the sideboard Turbo Fog, so against aggressive decks, we change to a stall turns deck and keep the same win conditions.
Thanks for this interesting deck tech.
May I ask you two questions:
1. If you could choose 8 cards in the sideboard dedicated to the aggro matchups, what 8 cards would you recommend to us and which 8 cards from the main do you recommend we take out (let's say against BR Aggro)?
2. For the purpose of your choice above, could I suggest you assume that your aggro opponent will remain as low-to-the-ground as possible post-board rather than to increase his curve (which I think would be a mistake and one which most decent aggro players would probably not fall into when facing against this Taking Turns deck).
Alcohol lol, they cant be serious, which means they arent, which means they are making fun, which means they are deranged.
Yeah, what's going on with Arisen Gorgon? I don't remember ever noticing Planeswalker Deck exclusives reaching these prices.
It does seem odd to include them in statistics just because they have a price floor below which they won't go.
Can we please refrain from putting PW deck cards no one actually plays in Std into the table?
Thanks for all of this great content! I've only been able to watch the first draft so far.
It looks to me like you shipped a pretty good black deck. I don't think blue was really very open. I think my choice would have been black/green in this draft. At what point were you pretty sure that you wanted to go into blue?
One thing I am getting from this format is that the archetype cards are great if you are solidly in the archetype, but it can be difficult to take some of the pieces and hope to draft your way into it. I am personally ending up with a lot of "good stuff" decks, even when the archetype for the color pair suggests something more synergistic.
Thanks again for the videos!
I didn't think about that part of it too much. I did start him Game 1, and just thought that he's a little inefficient but if I did draw an aura, that would be value. I think you're on to something, though. Especially if you play him in Game 1, one strategy might be to side him out (I did this often). Opponent may hold removal for him. Similar to what I tend to do with counterspells.
It's mostly about it's stats rather than it's ability. The 2/5 blocks, kills and survives against all the x/2s such as Boggart Brute, Onakke Ogre and Rhox Oracle.
I guess that I would have done the same as you. Maybe Runic as a first pick but I have not yet had a chance to try it out.
Correct. I've been asked that on other platforms today as well. I have been finding that Reclamation Sage wheels for me. I'm also not totally on board with it being main deckable at this point.
In fact, in the pick you are referring to, I would have taken Shock, Runic Armasaur and Aven Wind Mage over the Reclamation Sage.
But, then, it's also hard to argue with Ben Stark lol
Would you consider playing Druid of Horns without very many Auras as sort of a bluff? The druid is very annoying so I always try to deal with it as early as possible when my opponent plays it. Maybe it would be more of a bluff in sealed?
I noted that BenS on CF did some P1P1 examples. He also had the choice between Shock and Reclamation Sage as in your P1. He ended up taking the Reclamation Sage. It seems like a card you did not really consider as a first pick?
I didn't, and I can tell you why - I missed it. It's one of my flaws; once I know what I'm trying to do I kind of get tunnel vision.
Very nice! After reviewing the picks a couple of times, there is only one question that I had.
Did you consider Skyrider Patrol at P2P1? I know he is not as good as a splash, but still a strong card. Your deck as is was very streamlined and obviously worked well for you, but I'd like to see what you thought here.
I generally consider picks 4-6 to be the key picks, maybe even more important than the first 3 picks, because this is usually where I get a sense of what is open and what may not be.
I would say Modern as a format is not agreeable to either an aspiring professional Magic player nor a true professional Magic player due to the inherent variance of the format. It's hard to feel good about your career/financial aspirations when you're relying on something as unreliable as Modern.
Variance however isn't unhealthy (generally speaking) and for the average player opens up tons of opportunities for deck design and play style (even if those ideas never become truly competitive).
I agree, Modern isn't for everyone. Players who enjoy the concept of a metagame and making informed decisions based on that will find Modern unpleasant to play. Players who embrace/accept the inherent variance will at the very least find it tolerable to play, and possibly enjoy the "openness" of it.
Man, oh man, @stsung,
I was reading some of your other comments, one word, aggressive...you're a spike :) I'd say you're more of a Johnny, but then I've known you for a while, and I think lacking outside influence you'd tend to play the game your way, and indeed even writing articles like this belies that you're, as a matter of course, likely not a spike because you're seeking to inform for the purpose of possible change (and I know you don't get paid all that much to write these, really just enough to compensate for time and keep on playing in the digital space)...Spike, he don't give an S about that, he just jams the best cards, if there's a set of unknown best cards he'll jam those, if the best set of cards is known then he'll jam those and build his SB to win the mirror, doesn't matter what cards--as long as they're the best on any given day :) (Dimitri B. "I hate boogles"--rest is in the history book)
What's interesting to me, beneath some of the more emotional and colorful language of your The [sic] Facebook comments, is that you're really saying the same things as some of your commentors, but one format prior in transitional phase; ie, we're talking about gouging standard prices vice a more stable modern field with higher overhead cost but higher (per card) long term investment value [this argument continues its natural course to older formats, so despite elevated overhead, general stability {even greater stability} is there unless some horrific tragedy befalls the game]. Money always seems to come into play in these arguments, but is frankly moot for the purposes of objective assessment of the independent quality of a format, unless that is you're talking about prospective growth of the format, in which case this becomes more necessary to understand. But, as this is meta data, and not per se a measure of the format's quality as a stand alone "product" it always seems out of place when the argument goes there.
I know you own a set of power, but I also know you don't bath in shredded lotus petals and the blood of the innocent every night (or maybe you do, pray tell) and that alot of that came from scrapping your way through games and the slow grind of acquisition, and while I wouldn't call Vintage/Legacy staples bearer bonds [again sic, see I'm old folks...get over it :P], they're generally a very stable investment assuming you take proper care of them. So at the end of the day, if you do it right, you're really just transferring wealth from one means [nationally or internationally recognized fiat to another means, albeit niche, but still solid] to another, especially the further back you go in the game and the more stable it becomes, so despite formats becoming less fluid as you go back in time, you also get a more solid investment at the cost of initial overhead...so I'll never understand the money debate, it might as well be "why do you have more money than me?"...and it's another indicator of the natural course for long term players to invest in the game's history, the base is stable from multiple perspectives, gameplay, return on investment, etc.
The funny thing is, this is the same rationale that drives folks from initial entry constructed in standard, into modern.
All of that said, I don't think investment cost for players has any basis in selecting PT formats, nor should player (professional or otherwise) format preference, unless that is it drives one very important thing: the bottom line. WoTC should, and I assume does (but that could get me in trouble), select the format that will best drive sales of their product in the current production cycle...ie they shouldn't care about secondary sealed and singles product (for this specific endeavor), but should maximize sales of the game currently in print and or promote upcoming print cycles. This has historically been best done by playing, professionally, the format assured to have cards 100% in print, ie standard. When they printed dud sets they even Homedicapped (look it up) to ensure their current print cycle saw play on ESPN 20 (the Ocho, or something) and coverage in the pages of Scry, Inquest.
So, I think there's alot that folks can agree on, from a PT format selection standpoint, but I think sometimes the rationale that leads there diverges. I don't think you're saying that Legacy or Vintage should be played on the PT, but I think moreso what you're alluding to is that Modern meets similar criteria for a format not most optimal for professional play or based upon market, consumer trending only played periodically to augment promotion and diversity of the game...but if you can sell it, obviously standard is where WoTC (and all the folks paid by them) make the most money. Despite that, the exhaust phase of modern for a life cycle player complimented by a desire to invest in the more stable base of the game, from both a gameplay and monetary standpoint is what drives folks backward in time the more committed they get to the game.
Felt like sharing these few thoughts and possibly reopening some of The Facebook comments for discussion; to either be proven a fool or to open meaningful discourse--we'll see which (I'm so excited :P).
"(although at this point boogles may be a better bet :P; which is great, because watching some of the most skilled pilots in the world get beaten to death or beating down with bargain bin rare auras is a sight :P)"
An A+ comment right there.
"Modern is a format that is unrivaled in strategic diversity, excepting possibly Legacy with the recent banning of Deathrite Shaman. This transitional format is well suited for veterans and newly minted eternal players alike, due to the depth of viable, strong decks with varied levels of sophistication in piloting. Despite the depth of varied archetypes available in this format, long time players of this format will tend to transition to "earlier" formats, legacy and vintage, this shift, phenomenon is likely due to the more stable metagame in the older formats. One of the key deficiets of Modern is that despite a wide range of playable decks, the format enables player exhaust relatively quickly--often highly experienced players can find frustration in it, like most wide formats, the meta can be difficult to project, and the rewards for effort in deck construction can be washed away very quickly due a series of bad matchups, as formats of this width tend to be difficult to project and due to their raw size have many unforgiving and ill-favored matchups."
Believe this is my take I offered you when we were chatting before this article went up, and at least in my humble opinion is still true. Wanted to share how I viewed the format for the readership, although the only person I'm likely to play in the format at any regularity is you (@stsung), I used to play it a decent bit. Agreed, professional players tend to dislike this format, because the variance of it is exceedingly high from both an independent game perspective and a wide meta perspective, that's why I always say if I had to play a game of modern and my life depended on it, count me in on affinity (although at this point boogles may be a better bet :P; which is great, because watching some of the most skilled pilots in the world get beaten to death or beating down with bargain bin rare auras is a sight :P).
What should be changed about modern, likely very little, it's the bridge format, and it needs to stay amorphous. How often should it be played as a professional format, as little as possible and only to whet the appetites of the folks who love it and buy boosters, no more and no less, but everyone's got to get paid from WoTC down to the professionals helping highlight the product.
Thanks for the great article man!
Thank you for reading and your input.
Yes, I think that this kind of sums it up. Some players should accept that Modern is not for them and they shouldn't try to make Modern good for them. We either adapt or not and that choice is ours. When we don't have a choice and have to play competitive events in it though, that's when problems arises and I guess this is one of the reasons WotC decided to stop doing Modern PTs in the first place. We got one back since Modern is so popular, but it is not among the competitive players where the popularity lies.
I don't really agree with the aspect of all archetypes but for that I'd have to write a long elaborate article to show you what I have in mind...You are right that we still have a wide range of archetypes we can play, we'll just be punished for our choice in some cases.
Banning cards is something that shouldn't really be happening, we should be given answers so we can fix the format ourselves by coming with ideas how to fight what we can encounter in the format.