Thanks for your comment there's lots of useful info there and I will be investigating further thats for sure.
Collected Company I think is the card of the moment and would work just as well as Elspeth maybe better. I need to try it out as Elspeth has been a staple game winner in the TP room for me.
If I include the above it will make Rhox War Monk even more useful. I think he's a good card better than the Finks I'm not sure. You can't bolt the Rhox War Monk hmm further testing required.
Your sideboard choices are spot on, I wasn't aware of Rending Volley.
I need to pick up some of these cards, you will see a return of this deck in a future article, I'm looking forward to spending more time on it.
The only concern I have is when I play another Naya deck thats a similar build , Elspeth was a good counter as I could give one of my creatures flying. Maybe Asura could be used, although she is bolt meat.
I think the deck needs some refinement to hang with the big boys, but I certainly would not give up on it. It has potential even without Goyfs. Apologies if my unsolicited advice is unwanted, but here's a few suggestions I have.
- I think you really want some number of CoCos here. Probably not the full 4 though. I would start by replacing the Archangel and Elspeths with 3 of them and go from there.
- I don't think you're going big enough to want all 6 ramp creatures. Maybe try Dryad Militant or Grim Lavamancer in place of the Birds. Dryad, at best, hoses the JVP/Snapcaster shenanigans that have become increasingly popular lately and, at worst against those decks, trades with and exiles a Bolt. Grim was silently one of the best cards in my Jund deck before I got rid of it. I'm not sure he's the right fit here, but worth considering at least.
- As you said, Quirion Dryad just doesn't have what it takes anymore, but that doesn't mean you need Tarmogoyfs. Scavenging Ooze has been an all-star for me in every green deck I've played. Personally, I wouldn't use less than 3, and I think you can justify the full 4 without Goyf. The 4th Pridemage wouldn't be unreasonable either, but I would start with a split of 3 Scooze, 3 Pridemage, 2 Thalia just to give yourself options and see what works best. One card I would not recommend here is Voice of Resurgence; it's underperformed for me at every opportunity.
- I really don't like Rhox War Monk as the secondary 3-drop, especially after seeing how ineffective he was against Burn. You have 3 strong options here. Geist of Saint Traft is probably the most powerful in a vacuum, but he's expensive and I'm not sure you have the removal necessary to punch him through. Kitchen Finks is a pretty big kick in the nards to the burn decks and very strong against any aggressive or midrange grindy deck. Lastly, Loxodon Smiter is a big body for the cost and hoses the midrange and control decks pretty hard. Of the 3, I would start with Finks and see how they work out.
- Without having actually played the deck I don't want to screw with the mana base too much, but I would encourage you to find room for at least 1 Ghost Quarter, probably cutting the basic Island if you're also cutting the War Monks. Both Affinity and Infect lean heavily on their manlands and it could buy you the time you need against Amulet and Tron.
- The biggest weakness I see with your current deck is the sideboard. Modern is a format of powerful linear decks and equally powerful, if narrow, hate cards. Being in 4 colors lets you use almost all of them. The current most popular decks, and therefore the ones you want to target with your sideboard, are Affinity, Twin, Burn, Tron, Jund/Abzan, and Infect.
- Stony Silence is great against both Affinity and Tron; run 2-3 of these.
- Rest in Peace is a headache for all the JVP/Snapcaster/Kommand decks as it turns off their card advantage and they have very limited answers once resolved (2-3 Abrupt Decay, 0-2 Maelstrom Pulse from Jund/Abzan. Nothing in Grixis.) It does shut off your KotR, but it's so much stronger than Relic that I think it's worth at least trying 2 of them.
- Rending Volley is probably the best anti-Twin card since it can't be countered or redirected onto Spellskite. Consider 2-3 of these.
- Speaking of Spellskite, he is very good against both Twin and Infect. 2-of at least
- I'm really unsure what you want against Tron to be honest. None of the common hate cards really fit into this deck. Blood Moon hurts you pretty bad, and Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain seem almost uncastable. Crumble to Dust is powerful, but it's usually too slow. Sea's Claim or Spreading Seas could be an option, but they have plenty of answers to those in O-Stone and Nature's Claim. Maybe just loading up on Ghost Quarters is the best answer.
- Kor Firewalker is an excellent answer to burn; keep these.
- Thragtusk or Loxodon Heirarch is something to consider as just an all-around big threat with bonus life gain.
- Wear//Tear, Nature's Claim, or Destructive Revelry are better options than Disenchant if you feel you need that effect, though I suspect not with Pridemages already maindeck.
- Boarding into 4 Kitchen Finks, Scooze, Pridemage, and/or Thalia is another option depending on how your maindeck is configured.
Putting all of this together, If I were to pick up this deck, this is what I would start with.
Creatures (25)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Kitchen Finks
Instants (11)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Collected Company
Sideboard (15)
2 Spellskite
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Stony Silence
3 Rending Volley
2 Rest in Peace
3 Ghost Quarter
You're clearly the one who has actual experience with the deck though. So if you get a chance, I'd love to hear what you think of these suggestions and, if you do try any of them out, how they worked for you.
With the Knowledge Pool Lockdown deck, there is a way in Modern to break it up. If the opponent casts Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, they still get their on-casting triggers, so they can remove your combo from the board. I meant to include that, but completely spaced it during writing.
I've completed my first draft of 8th Edition and managed to record it; I felt it went okay. The videos are here (should be the most recent): http://www.twitch.tv/cheaterhater/profile/highlights
I'm not sure how I should format them for an article though, in particular as I'm not sure I learned much (other than I struggled for playables, board stalls can easily occur, and remember to draft even crappy 2-drops in a semi-aggro deck). I also don't know if I want to put them on Youtube, or just leave them as Twitch highlights.
AKMatt- that's exactly what I was going for - I'm going to aim for really high production value - I'm like you, I can't stand plodding through those boring, long videos...gotta step it up! :) Glad you enjoyed it.
"Wizards has no choice for things like this – if they every knowingly fail to defend their copyright, the work can be declared public domain."
That's not true. You're confusing copyright and trademark law and even in the case of a trademark the holder doesn't have to enforce it if the infringement is deemed inconsequential.
The video was really well made. Usually I do prefer articles, but the slick editing made this a lot more interesting than the 4-hour "delayed stream" recordings I've seen on other sites.
I did watch it all, despite the fact that I don't tend to like to sit still for videos. Seemed like the BK pilot was having a bad day against you and didn't quite know what to do about it. Not that I am an kind of expert. I appreciate the work you put into this and that Josh is experimenting with presentation formats, however typically I would not have bothered (I usually don't even with content providers I like, but since you asked I did.)
A teaser or synopsis in the article itself since you have the space goes a long way.
Specific comments:
Voice was very clear. Background music is a matter of taste (not mine) and imho the vol was too high as it occasionally clashed with what you were saying. I'd much rather it be taken down a lot or not put in at all.
It probably would help if you paused the presentation at points where the game action gets thick. Especially recording off the poor UI of MTGO, it is not always obvious what happened.
That said it is a good video. The most interesting part was the stats notes you had at the end as I bet a LOT of players don't do that so meticulously. Perhaps going through the various notes would be something you include next time as well as maybe a primer on how to take good notes for competition.
I see others complaints about the video only approach but I for one thought it was very well done. As Josh said Starcity and Channelfireball do it, so why not us. I know I have done video only in the past but have learned to at least include a decklist so others could see exactly what was in the deck. I enjoyed your content though and look forward to more.
I often feel this way too Paul - however my hands are time-tied, as there's only so much time in my day, and I'm focusing my efforts on producing top-notch videos for pauper to bring new eyes and excitement to the format. My main focus is quality. Hope you still give it a view, I think you'll like it :)
I'll have to claim ignorance on that one Grandstar13...so sorry. I'd be happy to send you just the audio/VO if you'd like. Let me know - and thanks for watching anyways!
I usually look at videos without sound, so I missed the loss of text as well. The video itself looked sharp. My only comment was I expected the grayed text of the rounds to highlight for each round, or at least title block announcing each round (perhaps with opponent/deck played against text).
Being a deaf peruser of PureMTGO, I typically am sad re: podcasts/videos, but I "get" it.
I did appreciate deluxeicoff's clear speech in the video- The captions still are not perfect, but your speech made YouTube's auto captions work much better!
Thanks!
Wanted to try things out with the last week of the year, since Starcity, Channelfireball and other sites present video only content, it seemed like a thing that we should at the very least check out :D
I agree that more players are need online, especially of the casual kind.
BUT can the program handle an influx of new players without crashing?
Personally, I like play points. It addresses an issue that the community has been asking for years now...universal boosters!! You can use them in the place of any kind of boosters in any event.
My only wish regarding them, would be to be able to use mixed entry; for example, if you want to enter a RGD draft, but only have the Ravnica and Guildpact boosters, it would be nice to be able to use 40 play points for the missing booster.
Without play points, the weekly modern flashback drafts would be undo-able (although I do wish that they will also offer swiss events as my ELO isn't high enough to join a single elimination event).
WotC could always go the route Vinyl did when dealing with the physical/digital thing: most records now give you a free digital download when you buy them. If each magic pack came with, say, .50 credit in the MTGO store you could get a lot more players to try it out, or give a code for a free draft in random packs, or 2 free drafts in each box...and it might actually encourage people to buy some physical packs instead of just singles. It wouldn't even have to be permanent, just for a year or two to bolster the program.
1) More attention to the casual online community. Bring back niche formats and 2HG. Maybe allow a custom format where players can upload their own B&R lists. Doing something for casual gaming, also like improving chat, may lure in more players to MTGO.
2) I am looking format to Sealed Leagues. I hope they are not phantom.
3) Binderview. I also used to collect playsets of all cards online. Now I couldnt care less.
4) More players. I think the hurdle is to convince paper players that it is worth putting Money into digital objects. The usual question is "why should I pay twice for the same Card?", or "why should I buy I digital Card when I can buy the paper version instead". Seems like a great chance to promote Vintage and Legacy where there is significant differences in the prices. Or get people to play casual on a budget and they will sooner or later make the switch to sanctioned events. I known that I did.
On a side node. I am not too happy with the innovations seen from Lee Sharpe. I am still not a fan of play points.
Thanks for your comment there's lots of useful info there and I will be investigating further thats for sure.
Collected Company I think is the card of the moment and would work just as well as Elspeth maybe better. I need to try it out as Elspeth has been a staple game winner in the TP room for me.
If I include the above it will make Rhox War Monk even more useful. I think he's a good card better than the Finks I'm not sure. You can't bolt the Rhox War Monk hmm further testing required.
Your sideboard choices are spot on, I wasn't aware of Rending Volley.
I need to pick up some of these cards, you will see a return of this deck in a future article, I'm looking forward to spending more time on it.
The only concern I have is when I play another Naya deck thats a similar build , Elspeth was a good counter as I could give one of my creatures flying. Maybe Asura could be used, although she is bolt meat.
I think the deck needs some refinement to hang with the big boys, but I certainly would not give up on it. It has potential even without Goyfs. Apologies if my unsolicited advice is unwanted, but here's a few suggestions I have.
- I think you really want some number of CoCos here. Probably not the full 4 though. I would start by replacing the Archangel and Elspeths with 3 of them and go from there.
- I don't think you're going big enough to want all 6 ramp creatures. Maybe try Dryad Militant or Grim Lavamancer in place of the Birds. Dryad, at best, hoses the JVP/Snapcaster shenanigans that have become increasingly popular lately and, at worst against those decks, trades with and exiles a Bolt. Grim was silently one of the best cards in my Jund deck before I got rid of it. I'm not sure he's the right fit here, but worth considering at least.
- As you said, Quirion Dryad just doesn't have what it takes anymore, but that doesn't mean you need Tarmogoyfs. Scavenging Ooze has been an all-star for me in every green deck I've played. Personally, I wouldn't use less than 3, and I think you can justify the full 4 without Goyf. The 4th Pridemage wouldn't be unreasonable either, but I would start with a split of 3 Scooze, 3 Pridemage, 2 Thalia just to give yourself options and see what works best. One card I would not recommend here is Voice of Resurgence; it's underperformed for me at every opportunity.
- I really don't like Rhox War Monk as the secondary 3-drop, especially after seeing how ineffective he was against Burn. You have 3 strong options here. Geist of Saint Traft is probably the most powerful in a vacuum, but he's expensive and I'm not sure you have the removal necessary to punch him through. Kitchen Finks is a pretty big kick in the nards to the burn decks and very strong against any aggressive or midrange grindy deck. Lastly, Loxodon Smiter is a big body for the cost and hoses the midrange and control decks pretty hard. Of the 3, I would start with Finks and see how they work out.
- Without having actually played the deck I don't want to screw with the mana base too much, but I would encourage you to find room for at least 1 Ghost Quarter, probably cutting the basic Island if you're also cutting the War Monks. Both Affinity and Infect lean heavily on their manlands and it could buy you the time you need against Amulet and Tron.
- The biggest weakness I see with your current deck is the sideboard. Modern is a format of powerful linear decks and equally powerful, if narrow, hate cards. Being in 4 colors lets you use almost all of them. The current most popular decks, and therefore the ones you want to target with your sideboard, are Affinity, Twin, Burn, Tron, Jund/Abzan, and Infect.
- Stony Silence is great against both Affinity and Tron; run 2-3 of these.
- Rest in Peace is a headache for all the JVP/Snapcaster/Kommand decks as it turns off their card advantage and they have very limited answers once resolved (2-3 Abrupt Decay, 0-2 Maelstrom Pulse from Jund/Abzan. Nothing in Grixis.) It does shut off your KotR, but it's so much stronger than Relic that I think it's worth at least trying 2 of them.
- Rending Volley is probably the best anti-Twin card since it can't be countered or redirected onto Spellskite. Consider 2-3 of these.
- Speaking of Spellskite, he is very good against both Twin and Infect. 2-of at least
- I'm really unsure what you want against Tron to be honest. None of the common hate cards really fit into this deck. Blood Moon hurts you pretty bad, and Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain seem almost uncastable. Crumble to Dust is powerful, but it's usually too slow. Sea's Claim or Spreading Seas could be an option, but they have plenty of answers to those in O-Stone and Nature's Claim. Maybe just loading up on Ghost Quarters is the best answer.
- Kor Firewalker is an excellent answer to burn; keep these.
- Thragtusk or Loxodon Heirarch is something to consider as just an all-around big threat with bonus life gain.
- Wear//Tear, Nature's Claim, or Destructive Revelry are better options than Disenchant if you feel you need that effect, though I suspect not with Pridemages already maindeck.
- Boarding into 4 Kitchen Finks, Scooze, Pridemage, and/or Thalia is another option depending on how your maindeck is configured.
Putting all of this together, If I were to pick up this deck, this is what I would start with.
Creatures (25)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Kitchen Finks
Instants (11)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Collected Company
Enchantments (2)
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
Lands (22)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Breeding Pool
1 Cinder Glade
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Sideboard (15)
2 Spellskite
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Stony Silence
3 Rending Volley
2 Rest in Peace
3 Ghost Quarter
You're clearly the one who has actual experience with the deck though. So if you get a chance, I'd love to hear what you think of these suggestions and, if you do try any of them out, how they worked for you.
With the Knowledge Pool Lockdown deck, there is a way in Modern to break it up. If the opponent casts Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, they still get their on-casting triggers, so they can remove your combo from the board. I meant to include that, but completely spaced it during writing.
Put them on youtube, I believe twitch deletes past broadcasts.
I've completed my first draft of 8th Edition and managed to record it; I felt it went okay. The videos are here (should be the most recent):
http://www.twitch.tv/cheaterhater/profile/highlights
I'm not sure how I should format them for an article though, in particular as I'm not sure I learned much (other than I struggled for playables, board stalls can easily occur, and remember to draft even crappy 2-drops in a semi-aggro deck). I also don't know if I want to put them on Youtube, or just leave them as Twitch highlights.
AKMatt- that's exactly what I was going for - I'm going to aim for really high production value - I'm like you, I can't stand plodding through those boring, long videos...gotta step it up! :) Glad you enjoyed it.
"Wizards has no choice for things like this – if they every knowingly fail to defend their copyright, the work can be declared public domain."
That's not true. You're confusing copyright and trademark law and even in the case of a trademark the holder doesn't have to enforce it if the infringement is deemed inconsequential.
The video was really well made. Usually I do prefer articles, but the slick editing made this a lot more interesting than the 4-hour "delayed stream" recordings I've seen on other sites.
I did watch it all, despite the fact that I don't tend to like to sit still for videos. Seemed like the BK pilot was having a bad day against you and didn't quite know what to do about it. Not that I am an kind of expert. I appreciate the work you put into this and that Josh is experimenting with presentation formats, however typically I would not have bothered (I usually don't even with content providers I like, but since you asked I did.)
A teaser or synopsis in the article itself since you have the space goes a long way.
Specific comments:
Voice was very clear. Background music is a matter of taste (not mine) and imho the vol was too high as it occasionally clashed with what you were saying. I'd much rather it be taken down a lot or not put in at all.
It probably would help if you paused the presentation at points where the game action gets thick. Especially recording off the poor UI of MTGO, it is not always obvious what happened.
That said it is a good video. The most interesting part was the stats notes you had at the end as I bet a LOT of players don't do that so meticulously. Perhaps going through the various notes would be something you include next time as well as maybe a primer on how to take good notes for competition.
Nice material. I find the backing music a little offputting.
Sure - hate to mislead people - I hadn't thought it would cause any confusion/critiques...that should fix it up. Thanks JXC!
Would you like me to put that in the title?
Can we edit it to say "A video tutorial" ? For sure I'll do this for the next one to avoid any confusion.
I see others complaints about the video only approach but I for one thought it was very well done. As Josh said Starcity and Channelfireball do it, so why not us. I know I have done video only in the past but have learned to at least include a decklist so others could see exactly what was in the deck. I enjoyed your content though and look forward to more.
I usually read comments without eyes ;) Seriously though - if you know how to do what your suggesting...please share.
I often feel this way too Paul - however my hands are time-tied, as there's only so much time in my day, and I'm focusing my efforts on producing top-notch videos for pauper to bring new eyes and excitement to the format. My main focus is quality. Hope you still give it a view, I think you'll like it :)
I'll have to claim ignorance on that one Grandstar13...so sorry. I'd be happy to send you just the audio/VO if you'd like. Let me know - and thanks for watching anyways!
I usually look at videos without sound, so I missed the loss of text as well. The video itself looked sharp. My only comment was I expected the grayed text of the rounds to highlight for each round, or at least title block announcing each round (perhaps with opponent/deck played against text).
Being a deaf peruser of PureMTGO, I typically am sad re: podcasts/videos, but I "get" it.
I did appreciate deluxeicoff's clear speech in the video- The captions still are not perfect, but your speech made YouTube's auto captions work much better!
Thanks!
Wanted to try things out with the last week of the year, since Starcity, Channelfireball and other sites present video only content, it seemed like a thing that we should at the very least check out :D
Zero text. That's meta... :(
I agree that more players are need online, especially of the casual kind.
BUT can the program handle an influx of new players without crashing?
Personally, I like play points. It addresses an issue that the community has been asking for years now...universal boosters!! You can use them in the place of any kind of boosters in any event.
My only wish regarding them, would be to be able to use mixed entry; for example, if you want to enter a RGD draft, but only have the Ravnica and Guildpact boosters, it would be nice to be able to use 40 play points for the missing booster.
Without play points, the weekly modern flashback drafts would be undo-able (although I do wish that they will also offer swiss events as my ELO isn't high enough to join a single elimination event).
WotC could always go the route Vinyl did when dealing with the physical/digital thing: most records now give you a free digital download when you buy them. If each magic pack came with, say, .50 credit in the MTGO store you could get a lot more players to try it out, or give a code for a free draft in random packs, or 2 free drafts in each box...and it might actually encourage people to buy some physical packs instead of just singles. It wouldn't even have to be permanent, just for a year or two to bolster the program.
My wishes would look almost the same.
1) More attention to the casual online community. Bring back niche formats and 2HG. Maybe allow a custom format where players can upload their own B&R lists. Doing something for casual gaming, also like improving chat, may lure in more players to MTGO.
2) I am looking format to Sealed Leagues. I hope they are not phantom.
3) Binderview. I also used to collect playsets of all cards online. Now I couldnt care less.
4) More players. I think the hurdle is to convince paper players that it is worth putting Money into digital objects. The usual question is "why should I pay twice for the same Card?", or "why should I buy I digital Card when I can buy the paper version instead". Seems like a great chance to promote Vintage and Legacy where there is significant differences in the prices. Or get people to play casual on a budget and they will sooner or later make the switch to sanctioned events. I known that I did.
On a side node. I am not too happy with the innovations seen from Lee Sharpe. I am still not a fan of play points.
When you have written more than one million Words I am sure that you can handle criticism like this.
It is most likely a small thing with the price-files. But the error is repeated from last week where I also pointed it out.