I've wanted to do this since the Top Eight decklists went online, but never took the time to figure it out. Great read, and I look forward to the rest of the series.
Wow. After that first game I thought you'd get squashed. GJ in winning the next two.
I've been playing the Kabira Crossroads main in every white deck I draft lately; it's been great. (sidenote - I almost always draft white/x. I got into that practice with ACR w/u or w/g and I still like Zen's white.)
I thought (like you seem to) that it might wreck my curve but even though I always have multiple WW costs for t2, I also have other things to do on the rare occasions I draw it t2.
Yeah, not playing the sac land was an error. I also think that I dislike the arrow volley trap even more than you. If it hit attackers or blockers it would be great, but as I am usually the aggressor I don't even main deck it anymore.
I've read both of your articles and found them both very interesting as well as enlightening. However the same question keeps bouncing around in my head. Why are you doing this instead of Wizards? I can think of a hundred different business reasons for Wizards to track that data, and hundred more ways in which I could use it to improve the business. I'm not just talking about the money side of the equation either. If I was part of Wizard's R & D, I could use this information to create better cards, or at least create fewer bad ones. I think you stated in both articles that Wizards doesn't currently track this information, but I'm curious as to whether they track any game/card related statistics at all? For instance it's easy to tell that Jund is winning most of the tournaments, but is it winning because the Bloodbraid Elf cascades into a Blightening or because it cascades into a Putrid Leech? That kind of information would be easy to gather on MTGO because every play is recorded. That would sure give them a good idea of why Jund wins, not just that it wins, and from a player's perspective why it loses and how to avoid that. At the very least they could aggregate the raw data and make it available to people, like you who are interested in doing something with it. Thanks for your efforts and I'm very interested in reading about the other three colors.
Skyfisher wouldn't really fit the deck from my experience with it. Emeria Angel is been pretty good, I believe it's better than Conqueror's Pledge. Burst Lightning has also been pretty good against Malakir. I wasn't playing with Magosi, the Waterveil. I would like to know how useful it has been and in what situations it was good. Having not played with it I guess coming into play tapped will hurt more often than it's abilitie being useful.
i like how ur honest about ur results. you note that things might be higher (e.g., Sky Ruin Drake) because of a smooth mana draw and what not. Hurts me though that Kraken Hatchling is so low :( he's so good. especially in multiples of 3-4 with a coupla flyers doing the dirty work.
Hey, I've been running a Zendikar ally deck since Zen came out! I like your build a lot, but I think you're playing too many spells. Often, an ally deck can really take off just by playing more allies. I also have some great 'tech' for dealing with opposing creatures (since nothing in block has protection from green) - Soaring Seacliff + Tajuru Archer. You throw the enemy creature in the air and knock it out of the sky, this justifies playing 4 archers (and I also run 4 cliffs) plus I play Kor Skyfisher as there are many allies I don't mind returning to my hand (and getting a cliff or ally back for some recurring removal is a nice trick). Anyway, here's my deck:
As you noted, the deck is extremely bad against Day of Judgment. It also has significant mana issues, though I tried to solve this by making a GW Allies deck that splashes for blue (mostly because of the seacliffs/archer interaction). I sometimes swap an Expedition Map in, which can smooth things out and again find you a cliffs if you have the archers out. No one sees it coming (unless they've seen it before) and you will get the great hands with lots of 2-drops where you just run over everyone.
Generally the more allies you can play in your ally deck, the better it gets (which is why I'm playing with things like Makindi Shieldmate, though he can be surprisingly annoying against creature-based decks if they don't respect him).
Is there anyway you can add your podcast to the zune network? It kinda sucks that i can have all my other magic podcasts auto-sync whenever a new one is released but not this one.
Btw this is my favorite magic website keep up the awesome work.
I've been running a WR ally deck lately, and it wins it's fair amount of matches as well.Some things about white; you're right about cutting sheildmate's blessing. Everytime I had it, I wished it was something else. Same with Narrow Escape (due to the cost, as you always want to play something). The card that has worked well for me is Brave the Elements. It's been suprisingly versitle acting as a counterspell, safe passage, and allowing my guys to finish the game. Great utility, and would fit into Sheildmate's Blessing slot quite easily.
Skyfisher is interesting. The only downsize to it is that you wanna try and play out a land each turn to ramp to both sphinxes, and also against monoblack it sets you back a turn and draws their useless removal.
The splash for burst to deal with bloodwitch reminds me alot of faeries splashing for bolt to deal with stag. I think you should try using Skyfisher over Emeria Angel. It works great with spreading seas, lightcaster, and journey if you pull a late game into the roil.
I really feel like the prize sturcture is a giant F-U from wizards to all the vanguard players out there. Not only did they kill the format (and would it really kill them to add abilities to new avatars? Just for the casual players), but now they are killing any value/coolness left in the avatars we collected by flooding the market with them. Thanks a lot for that, guys.
I understand that they wanted to give away a prize that would not impact their sales in any way at all, but why purposely devalue things other people have earned/paid money for?
The red splash is kind of interesting. I'm not sure that you really need Burst Lightning though. With only 5 red sources and 2 Burst Lightnings main, it seems unlikely to help you much against a fast creature rush. Demolish would definitely help the Valakut matchup though. I think I would add more fetches (probably should anyway, they're good with Emeria Angel) and put the Mountain and another Demolish in the board, then ditch the Burst Lightnings.
Next Level Momir is Momir Basic plus a Jhoira of the Ghitu Avatar. Some folks add a Stonehewer Giant Avatar into the mix too.
My personal favorite is pairing Momir Vig and Maelstrom Archangel Avatars. You get to diversify, but you diminish the random "I win" factor Momir+Jhoira have.
I too think that winners will have to e-mail a specific address with their wish list.
The duration of Momir games varies. Sometimes one player gets clearly better creatures and overwhelms the other side quickly.
But I also had some games while preparing this article in which the game "froze" if you know what I mean. Both side's creatures were equally strong, no obvious bombs, no removal creatures, nothing but fatties. In such games both sides sit and create more and more tokens until something unexpected happens. Those games take long.
I'm still trying to figure out how WotC is going to award your choice of Avatar. I'm thinking they would have to award them by hand, and you are probably going to have to email someone with your choices. I doubt they will have some way to choose your avatars online, although that would be cool.
Also, how long do Momir matches typically last? I can't imagine that they take nearly as long as regular games.
@rickwins1971: Yes, I mentioned effects such as bounce and exile (Mistmeadow Witch for example) but no, I didn't talk about Azorius Guildmage in detail (I agree; I should have). It's on the best cards list, however (obiviously).
I've wanted to do this since the Top Eight decklists went online, but never took the time to figure it out. Great read, and I look forward to the rest of the series.
Wow. After that first game I thought you'd get squashed. GJ in winning the next two.
I've been playing the Kabira Crossroads main in every white deck I draft lately; it's been great. (sidenote - I almost always draft white/x. I got into that practice with ACR w/u or w/g and I still like Zen's white.)
I thought (like you seem to) that it might wreck my curve but even though I always have multiple WW costs for t2, I also have other things to do on the rare occasions I draw it t2.
Yeah, not playing the sac land was an error. I also think that I dislike the arrow volley trap even more than you. If it hit attackers or blockers it would be great, but as I am usually the aggressor I don't even main deck it anymore.
GL on your attempt(s) for San Diego.
It would be interesting if they done all foil pack drafts
The Momir avatars were given out on the 16th, although speaking to some people in game not ever one got one who posted in the thread.
Brave the Elements is a fantastic card, I've been running it in my Kor deck. I think the swap is a good idea.
Soaring Seacliff + Tajuru Archer is an interesting combo that I hadn't noticed.
I like your deck but am not sure about the lack of spells to hold back Day of Judgment and the speed of the Vampires.
How does your deck fair vs Vampires?
re: Community Cup MOMIR Basic Tournament
"The avatars will be granted to all participants of the Community Cup Challenge thread promotion on December 16"
The avatar was distributed on the 16th or was did this thread promotion take place on the 16th?
I've read both of your articles and found them both very interesting as well as enlightening. However the same question keeps bouncing around in my head. Why are you doing this instead of Wizards? I can think of a hundred different business reasons for Wizards to track that data, and hundred more ways in which I could use it to improve the business. I'm not just talking about the money side of the equation either. If I was part of Wizard's R & D, I could use this information to create better cards, or at least create fewer bad ones. I think you stated in both articles that Wizards doesn't currently track this information, but I'm curious as to whether they track any game/card related statistics at all? For instance it's easy to tell that Jund is winning most of the tournaments, but is it winning because the Bloodbraid Elf cascades into a Blightening or because it cascades into a Putrid Leech? That kind of information would be easy to gather on MTGO because every play is recorded. That would sure give them a good idea of why Jund wins, not just that it wins, and from a player's perspective why it loses and how to avoid that. At the very least they could aggregate the raw data and make it available to people, like you who are interested in doing something with it. Thanks for your efforts and I'm very interested in reading about the other three colors.
great article i love cheap fun decks keep them coming one thing though its 2009 lol
Skyfisher wouldn't really fit the deck from my experience with it. Emeria Angel is been pretty good, I believe it's better than Conqueror's Pledge. Burst Lightning has also been pretty good against Malakir. I wasn't playing with Magosi, the Waterveil. I would like to know how useful it has been and in what situations it was good. Having not played with it I guess coming into play tapped will hurt more often than it's abilitie being useful.
Great article btw!
lol nice tag line. 100 cs 8-mans? im there.
i like how ur honest about ur results. you note that things might be higher (e.g., Sky Ruin Drake) because of a smooth mana draw and what not. Hurts me though that Kraken Hatchling is so low :( he's so good. especially in multiples of 3-4 with a coupla flyers doing the dirty work.
Hey, I've been running a Zendikar ally deck since Zen came out! I like your build a lot, but I think you're playing too many spells. Often, an ally deck can really take off just by playing more allies. I also have some great 'tech' for dealing with opposing creatures (since nothing in block has protection from green) - Soaring Seacliff + Tajuru Archer. You throw the enemy creature in the air and knock it out of the sky, this justifies playing 4 archers (and I also run 4 cliffs) plus I play Kor Skyfisher as there are many allies I don't mind returning to my hand (and getting a cliff or ally back for some recurring removal is a nice trick). Anyway, here's my deck:
Creatures
4 Ondu Cleric
2 Kor Skyfisher
2 Makindi Shieldmate
3 Kabira Evangel
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
4 Tajuru Archer
1 Joraga Bard
3 Turntimber Ranger
4 Umara Raptor
1 Seagate Loremaster
1 Seascape Aerialist
33 cards
Other Spells
1 Spell Pierce
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 cards
Lands
7 Forest
4 Graypelt Refuge
1 Island
8 Plains
4 Soaring Seacliff
24 cards
As you noted, the deck is extremely bad against Day of Judgment. It also has significant mana issues, though I tried to solve this by making a GW Allies deck that splashes for blue (mostly because of the seacliffs/archer interaction). I sometimes swap an Expedition Map in, which can smooth things out and again find you a cliffs if you have the archers out. No one sees it coming (unless they've seen it before) and you will get the great hands with lots of 2-drops where you just run over everyone.
Generally the more allies you can play in your ally deck, the better it gets (which is why I'm playing with things like Makindi Shieldmate, though he can be surprisingly annoying against creature-based decks if they don't respect him).
Is there anyway you can add your podcast to the zune network? It kinda sucks that i can have all my other magic podcasts auto-sync whenever a new one is released but not this one.
Btw this is my favorite magic website keep up the awesome work.
I've been running a WR ally deck lately, and it wins it's fair amount of matches as well.Some things about white; you're right about cutting sheildmate's blessing. Everytime I had it, I wished it was something else. Same with Narrow Escape (due to the cost, as you always want to play something). The card that has worked well for me is Brave the Elements. It's been suprisingly versitle acting as a counterspell, safe passage, and allowing my guys to finish the game. Great utility, and would fit into Sheildmate's Blessing slot quite easily.
Thats a shame Flip, I was rooting for you.
Skyfisher is interesting. The only downsize to it is that you wanna try and play out a land each turn to ramp to both sphinxes, and also against monoblack it sets you back a turn and draws their useless removal.
The timing of the actual tournament couldn't be worse unless they moved it back 2 days. Sadly I doubt I'll be in town to be able to play in it at all.
EDIT: As it turns out...didn't get the promised avatar...will see what customer support does about that.
The splash for burst to deal with bloodwitch reminds me alot of faeries splashing for bolt to deal with stag. I think you should try using Skyfisher over Emeria Angel. It works great with spreading seas, lightcaster, and journey if you pull a late game into the roil.
I really feel like the prize sturcture is a giant F-U from wizards to all the vanguard players out there. Not only did they kill the format (and would it really kill them to add abilities to new avatars? Just for the casual players), but now they are killing any value/coolness left in the avatars we collected by flooding the market with them. Thanks a lot for that, guys.
I understand that they wanted to give away a prize that would not impact their sales in any way at all, but why purposely devalue things other people have earned/paid money for?
The red splash is kind of interesting. I'm not sure that you really need Burst Lightning though. With only 5 red sources and 2 Burst Lightnings main, it seems unlikely to help you much against a fast creature rush. Demolish would definitely help the Valakut matchup though. I think I would add more fetches (probably should anyway, they're good with Emeria Angel) and put the Mountain and another Demolish in the board, then ditch the Burst Lightnings.
Next Level Momir is Momir Basic plus a Jhoira of the Ghitu Avatar. Some folks add a Stonehewer Giant Avatar into the mix too.
My personal favorite is pairing Momir Vig and Maelstrom Archangel Avatars. You get to diversify, but you diminish the random "I win" factor Momir+Jhoira have.
I too think that winners will have to e-mail a specific address with their wish list.
The duration of Momir games varies. Sometimes one player gets clearly better creatures and overwhelms the other side quickly.
But I also had some games while preparing this article in which the game "froze" if you know what I mean. Both side's creatures were equally strong, no obvious bombs, no removal creatures, nothing but fatties. In such games both sides sit and create more and more tokens until something unexpected happens. Those games take long.
LE
Very nice article
I'm still trying to figure out how WotC is going to award your choice of Avatar. I'm thinking they would have to award them by hand, and you are probably going to have to email someone with your choices. I doubt they will have some way to choose your avatars online, although that would be cool.
Also, how long do Momir matches typically last? I can't imagine that they take nearly as long as regular games.
Thanks for the comments.
@kalandine: No you can't use snow lands.
@Kriterian: Nowhere it says you can't.
@rickwins1971: Yes, I mentioned effects such as bounce and exile (Mistmeadow Witch for example) but no, I didn't talk about Azorius Guildmage in detail (I agree; I should have). It's on the best cards list, however (obiviously).
Thanks again for the comments.
LE