Mike great article with lots of food for thought. But where are the pics of the naked ladies? lol. Seriously though an image or two to break it up would be awesome. I'm going to end up reading this 2-3 times more to get everything out of it.
Back when futuresight first came out the pact djinn deck was very popular. I remember seeing it alot in casual. Don't know how competitive it was in tourney but it was very strong in the games I played against it. Not much you can do once the pact resolves except scoop. Hivemind just makes it nastier.
It is in fact, completely accurate as to a real world example.
Yes, if less people drop, more packs are paid out, but then all you need to do is adjust the scale. The article mentions adjustments can be made, but I think you'll agree using a real-world example would be much better in demonstrating how payouts could be adjusted to slide with the # of rounds played.
I agree with Bingo. Keep a running board of tops so that in a month you can do an article on the best decks of the year. ;D Nice article and Grats Stanley! (I hope he comes back again...he wasn't there this week.)
Hey Thanks Bingo, and you are right. It is a totally rogue format for now. There are people who run combo or stupid aggro or control or aggro control and lots of variance between and we just never know who is going to show up with a crazy new deck each week. Plus we have some very friendly players and that is what makes it the most fun for me.
Grats on your win Sir, after my first round shambles ...mana flood/mana screw i didn't stay around to see the rest of the tourney RL got in the way.
Nice to read this article it's a good advert for the PRE shows us to be just casual dudes that enjoy a game of tribes (although glad i did not play you hate to have my mistakes on view to the critical public .. :) )
But joking aside Paul you have done a nice job with tourney report.
And i agree you never know what tribe anyone person will bring we all play rogue... because in truth there no meta game for tribes only what we make ourselves if you get my meaning.
We have seen so many different Tribes which makes this a fun format to play in.
I've played the deck for a while now too, and I agree 100% on Guardian Seraph. The only reason I was hesitant to remove the Angel is that she started the whole idea for the deck in the first place. That's a pretty bad reason to leave Seraph in the deck, but it's the trap I fell into.
I've tried this deck with a version like darkwizard42 presents. Ideas Unbound is good, with the problem of being sorcery and that it costs two blue manas. I would prefer Night's Whisper. You should adjust your mana base, which comes to be a little more vulnerable to Blood Moons, but you need just one specific colour. Also, pact of negations are good if match gets longer, as this card is the only defense we have. I should sideboard intervention pact in case we play against nonwhite decks, because it requires no target to be cast, which is very important to perform the combo in any situation.
But the best card I discovered for this deck is Spoils of the Vault to search the Hive Mind. I realised that this, as a combo deck, must win fast or probably you'll die. So Spoils is a great and fast card for searching your favourite Hive. I know Spoils seems to be a little suicide but believe me, I've won many matches I thought were lost thanks to this card. It is nice to see that your opponent almost never thoughtseizes your Spoils and then you transform it into a Hive Mind. There are, however, small possibilities that you kill yourself :)
nice article, i thought my walking desecration was the most creative card in my deck (zombies) but just didnt work out the way i had imagined, congrats to the vampires in the final, just too powerful for me .
Hmm.. that payout calculation failed. You considered that people who play 0-2 Drop as 0-9. If there would be boosters for every win, people wouldn't drop from event and there would be only like couple 0-X players. So as your payout seems same as old one, its completely wrong.
wow your list certainly provides some cards i never even though of using. Street Wraith looks like a good choice and I do agree there are a lot of pacts and the more testing i have done the more annoyed i am when i draw them instead of a hivemind. Pact of negation is sadly out of budget as of now but the main deck changes are very nice and certainly seem more efficient in pact searching.
The list I use is far more efficient at casting a turn 3/4 Hive Mind with Pact readily available. The hardest thing is usually digging for Hive Mind, the pacts can be found by Peer Through Depths.
Djinn Illuminatus with Burst of Speed is a simple combo of the sideboard. I think you definitely want to run Street Wraith in mainboard, and cut some pacts.
The only problem with this deck is that it is easily disrupted by things like TarmoRock, and NLU, Faeries, once they know how you are going to win. The transformational Sideboard is interesting, but I think if you are playing a deck with control elements, you should immediately reach for your Pact of Negations, and Gigadrowses. The Shattering Sprees are for Affinity and Ethersworn Canonist.
Wonderful article. I actually switched from competive play to more casual play when they redid the structure of DE's. Just honestly didnt think that it was worth it anymore to play that whole risk vs reward. Its now they seem to skimp the prize support for them so much outside the premier events and then those cost more now then what a DE did back then. And in truth only added afew packs to try to justify the price. But people play them so who im I to judge. But I do like your scales you brought up if those were the scales again. I would easly and quickly jump onboard to the spike player again. But untill then go go allies.
I will not be writing a report from states because well, no one wants to hear how I punted three rounds after starting off 4-0.
No one cares that I am still waiting for the sets that I redeemed to come in even though my friend got his sets on friday.
Also of note, Fed Ex told me WOTC has not sent my address anything in over a month. Which would be cool if it were true. so somewhere, between Texas and Kentucky, is a package with a playset of standard in it.
so I did not have any cards to actually play with.
I went up to louisville anyways so I could hang out with my friends, and about 30 minutes before the tournament started Bobby Graves built me a copy card for card of Turbo Fog, so big thanks for him. Not only did I get to hang out with my friends, but I actually got to play!
I had a blast regardless of my record, and I wish I was able to play more paper magic :D
well after playing this deck for a few days now, i personally think some changes are needed.
-4 Guardian Seraph
+4 Battlegrace Angel
I decided this simply because the Guardian Seraph has never really done anything for me...ever. If I ever go up against a deck with grapeshot then i guess ill be sorry, but the life link has helped more often than i thought it would. And youre basically attacking with a baneslayer or better wth the pridemages even if you cant use it as defense.
-4 Goldmeadow Harrier
+4 Ethersworn Canonist
I think the stopping power here is key. The tapping is a nice trick but I don't think its up to par with the rest of the deck. The ethersworn is just too good, especially in multiplayer.
Then slot i switch on is oblivion ring, sometimes its the ring sometimes its thorn of amethyst. I tend to prefer canonist+thorn or harrier+ring
Project-X is playable online, as a matter of fact i have seen it, it resembles the Flash Hulk kill employing lark+fanatic+mog+body double+feeder takes a lot of clicking but no more than Elfball did last season
Shouldn't you be saying they aren't "played in tourneys at the moment"?
The real question is whether such decks get played in tournaments from time to time, and was that ONLY in the past or will it happen again as future blocks continue to come out?
Certainly Project-X was played by some of the Japanese pros in past tournaments. I would think it likely such decks will turn up in some future tournaments as well, especially when the format is Extended. But Project X was played in Standard if I recall correctly. (Not to mention Project Y got tried by a few people later on!)
Ruel's ban was in 06 for peeking at the deck while shuffling it.
Martin Juza is not as storied as the kibler, whom is also a lead designer in WoW TCG and Chaotic tcg,played a vendilion clique where his opponent revealed his hand before he had picked the target.To be fair here he did after that announce himself as the target(*blatant douchebaggery).
Mori was also in 07 for a host of minor warnings and infractions that accumulated to a suspension
Kibler had only 1 way to stay in that game in order to win, the moon had to stay in play, seems a tad dubious
And all these players were not of the US
and all of them WERE handed suspensions/DQ's where as kibler was not
Not that i believe it, just want to play devil's advocate because i am bored
If this were the case...
Olivier Ruel would never have been banned for six months.
Martin Juza would not have been DQ'd from an event (during a media friendly run at Player of the Year title).
Former World Champion Mori would also have avoided sanctions. In fact, Mori was involved in a series of events during his title match against the arguably more famous Frank Karsten that ended up leading (if I am not mistaken) to Mori winning the title.
People are human, and make mistakes. I don't believe anything underhanded took place. But then again, I know I have a tendency to look for the good in actions.
luckily not one of those decks are played in tournys
the closest is maybe a bad version of elves for legacy which no one will play due to it not being a deck that wins
sure if it were to be the casual pro tour then you might have a valid point
worldgorger dragon combo is playable online
ext elves last season was playable online
sharuum dredge is playable online
what deck/s were you reffering to? that actually see the light of a table
You can not either prove it or disprove it paul, you are merely relying on conjecture!
what makes you so sure that a company would not want one of it's more famous and historied pros winning the top spot makes for a better cover story?
this only paints you as rather unreasonably shallow and pedantic.
Mike great article with lots of food for thought. But where are the pics of the naked ladies? lol. Seriously though an image or two to break it up would be awesome. I'm going to end up reading this 2-3 times more to get everything out of it.
Back when futuresight first came out the pact djinn deck was very popular. I remember seeing it alot in casual. Don't know how competitive it was in tourney but it was very strong in the games I played against it. Not much you can do once the pact resolves except scoop. Hivemind just makes it nastier.
At least, in that Yaya3 could have a unique avatar.
I don't think being able to trade avatars enters into it much. If it's the only one it's the only one.
It is in fact, completely accurate as to a real world example.
Yes, if less people drop, more packs are paid out, but then all you need to do is adjust the scale. The article mentions adjustments can be made, but I think you'll agree using a real-world example would be much better in demonstrating how payouts could be adjusted to slide with the # of rounds played.
I agree with Bingo. Keep a running board of tops so that in a month you can do an article on the best decks of the year. ;D Nice article and Grats Stanley! (I hope he comes back again...he wasn't there this week.)
Hey Thanks Bingo, and you are right. It is a totally rogue format for now. There are people who run combo or stupid aggro or control or aggro control and lots of variance between and we just never know who is going to show up with a crazy new deck each week. Plus we have some very friendly players and that is what makes it the most fun for me.
Grats on your win Sir, after my first round shambles ...mana flood/mana screw i didn't stay around to see the rest of the tourney RL got in the way.
Nice to read this article it's a good advert for the PRE shows us to be just casual dudes that enjoy a game of tribes (although glad i did not play you hate to have my mistakes on view to the critical public .. :) )
But joking aside Paul you have done a nice job with tourney report.
And i agree you never know what tribe anyone person will bring we all play rogue... because in truth there no meta game for tribes only what we make ourselves if you get my meaning.
We have seen so many different Tribes which makes this a fun format to play in.
I've played the deck for a while now too, and I agree 100% on Guardian Seraph. The only reason I was hesitant to remove the Angel is that she started the whole idea for the deck in the first place. That's a pretty bad reason to leave Seraph in the deck, but it's the trap I fell into.
Would be nice if you and Shard could do a top 10 standings going on results over the last 10 weeks (saturday was apoc 10) with decks
Might be nice for the readers to see who is top Dog and which is top tribe
The fact that avatars can be bought and sold really kills the scope for achievement recognition.
Imagine being the only person with a Garruk avatar (say MTGO player of the year - yaya3)and it can't be sold.
Hi!
I've tried this deck with a version like darkwizard42 presents. Ideas Unbound is good, with the problem of being sorcery and that it costs two blue manas. I would prefer Night's Whisper. You should adjust your mana base, which comes to be a little more vulnerable to Blood Moons, but you need just one specific colour. Also, pact of negations are good if match gets longer, as this card is the only defense we have. I should sideboard intervention pact in case we play against nonwhite decks, because it requires no target to be cast, which is very important to perform the combo in any situation.
But the best card I discovered for this deck is Spoils of the Vault to search the Hive Mind. I realised that this, as a combo deck, must win fast or probably you'll die. So Spoils is a great and fast card for searching your favourite Hive. I know Spoils seems to be a little suicide but believe me, I've won many matches I thought were lost thanks to this card. It is nice to see that your opponent almost never thoughtseizes your Spoils and then you transform it into a Hive Mind. There are, however, small possibilities that you kill yourself :)
Hope this helps!!
nice article, i thought my walking desecration was the most creative card in my deck (zombies) but just didnt work out the way i had imagined, congrats to the vampires in the final, just too powerful for me .
Hmm.. that payout calculation failed. You considered that people who play 0-2 Drop as 0-9. If there would be boosters for every win, people wouldn't drop from event and there would be only like couple 0-X players. So as your payout seems same as old one, its completely wrong.
wow your list certainly provides some cards i never even though of using. Street Wraith looks like a good choice and I do agree there are a lot of pacts and the more testing i have done the more annoyed i am when i draw them instead of a hivemind. Pact of negation is sadly out of budget as of now but the main deck changes are very nice and certainly seem more efficient in pact searching.
Way way too many pacts...
The list I use is far more efficient at casting a turn 3/4 Hive Mind with Pact readily available. The hardest thing is usually digging for Hive Mind, the pacts can be found by Peer Through Depths.
// Lands
4 [10E] Shivan Reef
4 [GP] Steam Vents
3 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
2 [OD] Mountain (3)
2 [US] Island (4)
3 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Street Wraith
// Spells
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [M10] Hive Mind
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [MR] Seething Song
4 [CHK] Desperate Ritual
4 [CHK] Peer Through Depths
2 [SOK] Ideas Unbound
4 [FD] Serum Visions
4 [FUT] Pact of the Titan
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [GP] Djinn Illuminatus
SB: 1 [M10] Burst of Speed
SB: 4 [GP] Gigadrowse
SB: 4 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [FUT] Pact of Negation
Djinn Illuminatus with Burst of Speed is a simple combo of the sideboard. I think you definitely want to run Street Wraith in mainboard, and cut some pacts.
The only problem with this deck is that it is easily disrupted by things like TarmoRock, and NLU, Faeries, once they know how you are going to win. The transformational Sideboard is interesting, but I think if you are playing a deck with control elements, you should immediately reach for your Pact of Negations, and Gigadrowses. The Shattering Sprees are for Affinity and Ethersworn Canonist.
Enjoy!
Wonderful article. I actually switched from competive play to more casual play when they redid the structure of DE's. Just honestly didnt think that it was worth it anymore to play that whole risk vs reward. Its now they seem to skimp the prize support for them so much outside the premier events and then those cost more now then what a DE did back then. And in truth only added afew packs to try to justify the price. But people play them so who im I to judge. But I do like your scales you brought up if those were the scales again. I would easly and quickly jump onboard to the spike player again. But untill then go go allies.
For the kind words,
I will not be writing a report from states because well, no one wants to hear how I punted three rounds after starting off 4-0.
No one cares that I am still waiting for the sets that I redeemed to come in even though my friend got his sets on friday.
Also of note, Fed Ex told me WOTC has not sent my address anything in over a month. Which would be cool if it were true. so somewhere, between Texas and Kentucky, is a package with a playset of standard in it.
so I did not have any cards to actually play with.
I went up to louisville anyways so I could hang out with my friends, and about 30 minutes before the tournament started Bobby Graves built me a copy card for card of Turbo Fog, so big thanks for him. Not only did I get to hang out with my friends, but I actually got to play!
I had a blast regardless of my record, and I wish I was able to play more paper magic :D
well after playing this deck for a few days now, i personally think some changes are needed.
-4 Guardian Seraph
+4 Battlegrace Angel
I decided this simply because the Guardian Seraph has never really done anything for me...ever. If I ever go up against a deck with grapeshot then i guess ill be sorry, but the life link has helped more often than i thought it would. And youre basically attacking with a baneslayer or better wth the pridemages even if you cant use it as defense.
-4 Goldmeadow Harrier
+4 Ethersworn Canonist
I think the stopping power here is key. The tapping is a nice trick but I don't think its up to par with the rest of the deck. The ethersworn is just too good, especially in multiplayer.
Then slot i switch on is oblivion ring, sometimes its the ring sometimes its thorn of amethyst. I tend to prefer canonist+thorn or harrier+ring
Project-X is playable online, as a matter of fact i have seen it, it resembles the Flash Hulk kill employing lark+fanatic+mog+body double+feeder takes a lot of clicking but no more than Elfball did last season
Shouldn't you be saying they aren't "played in tourneys at the moment"?
The real question is whether such decks get played in tournaments from time to time, and was that ONLY in the past or will it happen again as future blocks continue to come out?
Certainly Project-X was played by some of the Japanese pros in past tournaments. I would think it likely such decks will turn up in some future tournaments as well, especially when the format is Extended. But Project X was played in Standard if I recall correctly. (Not to mention Project Y got tried by a few people later on!)
Ruel's ban was in 06 for peeking at the deck while shuffling it.
Martin Juza is not as storied as the kibler, whom is also a lead designer in WoW TCG and Chaotic tcg,played a vendilion clique where his opponent revealed his hand before he had picked the target.To be fair here he did after that announce himself as the target(*blatant douchebaggery).
Mori was also in 07 for a host of minor warnings and infractions that accumulated to a suspension
Kibler had only 1 way to stay in that game in order to win, the moon had to stay in play, seems a tad dubious
And all these players were not of the US
and all of them WERE handed suspensions/DQ's where as kibler was not
Not that i believe it, just want to play devil's advocate because i am bored
If this were the case...
Olivier Ruel would never have been banned for six months.
Martin Juza would not have been DQ'd from an event (during a media friendly run at Player of the Year title).
Former World Champion Mori would also have avoided sanctions. In fact, Mori was involved in a series of events during his title match against the arguably more famous Frank Karsten that ended up leading (if I am not mistaken) to Mori winning the title.
People are human, and make mistakes. I don't believe anything underhanded took place. But then again, I know I have a tendency to look for the good in actions.
-Alex
Roflmao.
luckily not one of those decks are played in tournys
the closest is maybe a bad version of elves for legacy which no one will play due to it not being a deck that wins
sure if it were to be the casual pro tour then you might have a valid point
worldgorger dragon combo is playable online
ext elves last season was playable online
sharuum dredge is playable online
what deck/s were you reffering to? that actually see the light of a table
You can not either prove it or disprove it paul, you are merely relying on conjecture!
what makes you so sure that a company would not want one of it's more famous and historied pros winning the top spot makes for a better cover story?
this only paints you as rather unreasonably shallow and pedantic.