No cantrips? i understand that theyre not very good against goblins or fast beats, but one of the most attractive things I've seen out of threshold decks in any format, including pauper, is the ability to runa grow-style mana base supported by cantrips that would give you inherent card advantage over many decks/
the thing that occured was kibler was playing against hypergenesis in the semi finals of the pro tour. The hypergenesis player went off and one of the creatures he dropped was Angel of Despair. Neither player paid attention to the angel's trigger even though it is the responsibility of both. Now the question here is did kibler forget like his opponent or ignore it for his benefit. no one knows simply because possibly unlike gindy he was smart enough not to point out the missed trigger
Think Twice is a hold over from the PDC days of the deck. To be very honest, I did not think about altering that card because I am a fan of instant speed card draw, but finding a better option might a step in the right direction. A card like Mulldrifter, however slow, seems to be a much better tempo play.
Thanks for the input!
Great article. Although the list is endless, here are a couple other cheap cards that I play in a lot of EDH decks.
Glory (.25)
Weathered Wayfarer (.35)
Greater Good (.15)
Primal Command (.60)
Blatant Thievery (.50)
Trickbind (.30)
Beacon of Unrest (.80)
Dread (.12)
Promise of Power (.30)
Insurrection (.20)
Reiterate (.12)
Molten Disaster (.50)
Mirari (.50)
And although I hate the card, Magister Sphinx (.10)
Why is Think Twice in the deck? I realize it has "synergy" with Mongrel and Looter, but it's not overwhelming synergy, and could even be considered anti-synergy with the Threshold cards because flashing it back removes it from the graveyard. It's also a tempo drain to be spending all that mana for no board development.
Then again, I have no idea why you'd play any of these cards. It's a severely underpowered strategy compared to what else is out there, and has a terrible manabase to boot.
I've been messing around with a WG Soldier deck that runs 4x rancors main. I have 30 creatures maindeck to keep rancor active. The problem I faced so far is the UB Grim deck. It packs so much removal and CA that I really stood no match, I clearly was underpowered in that match up as the crypt rats constantly cleared my board and grim kept the crypts reloaded.
I'm relatively new to pauper as I mostly play competitive classic and thresh has a soft spot in my heart for anyone who knows me.
I was also tinkering around with a RGW deck running geopedes, skyfishers and the grazing landfall green creature. That deck was super fun to play, but running 3 colors seems way to slow, my early game wasn't fast enough and my late game wasn't strong enough. That deck also ran 4x rancor main.
I think rancor will find a place, but at 2-3 tickets each, most people won't even consider it an option.
Like I said, I love thresh so I love the list, will have to tinker around with it. Tarmogoyf is a common right lol!
One of the big reasons Thrill of the Hunt saw play was as a defensive counterspell. Rancor can't do that. If toughness based removal dies down, I could see a move towards Rancor in Slivers, but I don't think it is automatic.
I love me an Into the Roil, but considering what cards are getting played right now, Repeal seems better. That being said, both are mana hungry.
Similarly, with Spell Pierce- the inability to hit creatures early hurts, since Goblins are Public Enemy Flavor Flav #1. If, however, the meta shifted towards fewer creatures, I could see running Spell Pierce, as I feel it is a really strong spell that should see action.
I wouldn't want to run Rancor in a deck with fewer than 20 creatures. Additionally, what you are describing changes the deck quite a bit- I would not drop below the 23 land I have now, even with mana elves. Additionally, doing so would hurt the ability to run Counterspell (which you acknowledge), but it is the ability to run UU-No that helps this deck towards viability.
Rancor is an interesting thought, and perhaps in a different version of UG, a strong option- I just wouldn't try it here, personally.
First of all, it's brilliant to finally having you back - I haven't read a Pauper article since ... I can't even remember!
Second of all, brilliant article. I love Deep Dog too, it was my first pauper deck and every match is just so much more interesting compared to the usual pure aggro or pure control decks I play. It's good to see some new takes on the Deep Dog deck as I was thinking about Whiplast Trap too.
Have you considered Into the Roil or Spell Pierce?
You could add Rancor, cut Springing Tiger, and cut a land or two. If you added Llanowar Elves, you could probably get the land down to 20 or so. Might need to rejig the counters though.
Anyway, just a thought. It's not obvious to me what would better, the synergies of the deck, or less synergy, with the raw power of Rancor added.
i read this whole thing agreeing with almost every point until # 1.
The funny thing is that you even mention brian kibler in it.
did u know that he won his quarter finals round on a misclick at huston?
yea it may be an over site on all accounts but the fact that the game was not overturned due to the hypergenisis players oversight (can't even begin to spell his name and im greek as well lol) for all intents and prurposes brian kibler should have lost that round and its possible that hyper genisis would be the champion of the event, but there was a misclick, and from what i hear its pretty fishy when you compare the story to the case of charles gindy. why was gindy disqalified and kibler not? call it intent if u want or call it what it really is, kiblar is a known player and well liked by the general magic playing populace, lets give him a chance to win instead of this no name greek guy who by all intents and purposes should have won the round.
so yea i agree that the pt should always be paper but blaming misclicks is kind of shallow and pedantic, yea i went there lol.
I haven't played Pauper in awhile, but off the top of my head, I can see Rancor fitting into Green/White Aggro Slivers in place of other support spells.
Interesting statement. Does anyone know the costs associated with the *current* Pro tour?
I don't have enough details to put together any type of cost/benefit analysis, but I know that the current tour costs a LOT of money. Player parties, airfare, space, staff, etc.
Would MTGO cost more? maybe. Would it allow savings in other ways? maybe.
We can't know, as we're not privvy to that info. :(
As someone who is trying to get into Commander, but is having a hard time due to not knowing the good cards, this article was REALLY helpful. Thank you.
I agree that Rancor needs to be considered for any aggro deck, but I'm not sure this is the right fit. What gets cut? This deck is all about synergies and Rancor, while a great card (synergy with creatures) would not sit right in this deck.
Deep Dog's strength is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and Rancor just does not fit as neatly as some other cards do or would, in my opinion.
Well, SpikeBoy did mention that the deck does have some gas against Goblins, with Brownscale and Whiplash Trap. He even gives a sideboard plan for it, which was developed from actually playing it, not just thinking about it.
I like the deck, but I am curious as to how it would hold up against all the mono-red goblin decks that seem to be ruling the format currently. I had to stop playing cause I was getting bored of seeing the same goblins over and over.
Bounce is one of the ways to replace Wonder...resolve an Aether Burst for 4 is pretty good.
You provide some interesting points- I had not thought of a more traditional card advantage spell (Mulldrifter anyone?). The issue is, you want to leave mana up for your opponents turn, and the instant card draw in Pauper is slim pickings.
Blastoderm is an interesting choice- I might look into it.
If the idea is pitch-and-flashback, just running more Deep Analysis seems superior.
To which cnatrips are you referring?
No cantrips? i understand that theyre not very good against goblins or fast beats, but one of the most attractive things I've seen out of threshold decks in any format, including pauper, is the ability to runa grow-style mana base supported by cantrips that would give you inherent card advantage over many decks/
the thing that occured was kibler was playing against hypergenesis in the semi finals of the pro tour. The hypergenesis player went off and one of the creatures he dropped was Angel of Despair. Neither player paid attention to the angel's trigger even though it is the responsibility of both. Now the question here is did kibler forget like his opponent or ignore it for his benefit. no one knows simply because possibly unlike gindy he was smart enough not to point out the missed trigger
Llanowar doesn't really fit even to get the lands down but Urborg Elf might...being able to tap for either color is potentially a big++
Brian Kibler was not DQed nor has he been cited for fraud or cheating of any kind that I am aware of. You can look up Gindy's DQ on Wizards.
Think Twice is a hold over from the PDC days of the deck. To be very honest, I did not think about altering that card because I am a fan of instant speed card draw, but finding a better option might a step in the right direction. A card like Mulldrifter, however slow, seems to be a much better tempo play.
Thanks for the input!
-Alex
Great article. Although the list is endless, here are a couple other cheap cards that I play in a lot of EDH decks.
Glory (.25)
Weathered Wayfarer (.35)
Greater Good (.15)
Primal Command (.60)
Blatant Thievery (.50)
Trickbind (.30)
Beacon of Unrest (.80)
Dread (.12)
Promise of Power (.30)
Insurrection (.20)
Reiterate (.12)
Molten Disaster (.50)
Mirari (.50)
And although I hate the card, Magister Sphinx (.10)
Why is Think Twice in the deck? I realize it has "synergy" with Mongrel and Looter, but it's not overwhelming synergy, and could even be considered anti-synergy with the Threshold cards because flashing it back removes it from the graveyard. It's also a tempo drain to be spending all that mana for no board development.
Then again, I have no idea why you'd play any of these cards. It's a severely underpowered strategy compared to what else is out there, and has a terrible manabase to boot.
I've been messing around with a WG Soldier deck that runs 4x rancors main. I have 30 creatures maindeck to keep rancor active. The problem I faced so far is the UB Grim deck. It packs so much removal and CA that I really stood no match, I clearly was underpowered in that match up as the crypt rats constantly cleared my board and grim kept the crypts reloaded.
I'm relatively new to pauper as I mostly play competitive classic and thresh has a soft spot in my heart for anyone who knows me.
I was also tinkering around with a RGW deck running geopedes, skyfishers and the grazing landfall green creature. That deck was super fun to play, but running 3 colors seems way to slow, my early game wasn't fast enough and my late game wasn't strong enough. That deck also ran 4x rancor main.
I think rancor will find a place, but at 2-3 tickets each, most people won't even consider it an option.
Like I said, I love thresh so I love the list, will have to tinker around with it. Tarmogoyf is a common right lol!
Is there a place I can read about these guys getting DQd, Gindy and Kibler? Sounds interesting.
One of the big reasons Thrill of the Hunt saw play was as a defensive counterspell. Rancor can't do that. If toughness based removal dies down, I could see a move towards Rancor in Slivers, but I don't think it is automatic.
-Alex
I love me an Into the Roil, but considering what cards are getting played right now, Repeal seems better. That being said, both are mana hungry.
Similarly, with Spell Pierce- the inability to hit creatures early hurts, since Goblins are Public Enemy Flavor Flav #1. If, however, the meta shifted towards fewer creatures, I could see running Spell Pierce, as I feel it is a really strong spell that should see action.
-Alex
I wouldn't want to run Rancor in a deck with fewer than 20 creatures. Additionally, what you are describing changes the deck quite a bit- I would not drop below the 23 land I have now, even with mana elves. Additionally, doing so would hurt the ability to run Counterspell (which you acknowledge), but it is the ability to run UU-No that helps this deck towards viability.
Rancor is an interesting thought, and perhaps in a different version of UG, a strong option- I just wouldn't try it here, personally.
-Alex
First of all, it's brilliant to finally having you back - I haven't read a Pauper article since ... I can't even remember!
Second of all, brilliant article. I love Deep Dog too, it was my first pauper deck and every match is just so much more interesting compared to the usual pure aggro or pure control decks I play. It's good to see some new takes on the Deep Dog deck as I was thinking about Whiplast Trap too.
Have you considered Into the Roil or Spell Pierce?
You could add Rancor, cut Springing Tiger, and cut a land or two. If you added Llanowar Elves, you could probably get the land down to 20 or so. Might need to rejig the counters though.
Anyway, just a thought. It's not obvious to me what would better, the synergies of the deck, or less synergy, with the raw power of Rancor added.
i read this whole thing agreeing with almost every point until # 1.
The funny thing is that you even mention brian kibler in it.
did u know that he won his quarter finals round on a misclick at huston?
yea it may be an over site on all accounts but the fact that the game was not overturned due to the hypergenisis players oversight (can't even begin to spell his name and im greek as well lol) for all intents and prurposes brian kibler should have lost that round and its possible that hyper genisis would be the champion of the event, but there was a misclick, and from what i hear its pretty fishy when you compare the story to the case of charles gindy. why was gindy disqalified and kibler not? call it intent if u want or call it what it really is, kiblar is a known player and well liked by the general magic playing populace, lets give him a chance to win instead of this no name greek guy who by all intents and purposes should have won the round.
so yea i agree that the pt should always be paper but blaming misclicks is kind of shallow and pedantic, yea i went there lol.
I haven't played Pauper in awhile, but off the top of my head, I can see Rancor fitting into Green/White Aggro Slivers in place of other support spells.
Thoughts?
Interesting statement. Does anyone know the costs associated with the *current* Pro tour?
I don't have enough details to put together any type of cost/benefit analysis, but I know that the current tour costs a LOT of money. Player parties, airfare, space, staff, etc.
Would MTGO cost more? maybe. Would it allow savings in other ways? maybe.
We can't know, as we're not privvy to that info. :(
As someone who is trying to get into Commander, but is having a hard time due to not knowing the good cards, this article was REALLY helpful. Thank you.
I agree that Rancor needs to be considered for any aggro deck, but I'm not sure this is the right fit. What gets cut? This deck is all about synergies and Rancor, while a great card (synergy with creatures) would not sit right in this deck.
Deep Dog's strength is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and Rancor just does not fit as neatly as some other cards do or would, in my opinion.
-Alex
Well, SpikeBoy did mention that the deck does have some gas against Goblins, with Brownscale and Whiplash Trap. He even gives a sideboard plan for it, which was developed from actually playing it, not just thinking about it.
Rancor now has to be considered for any pauper deck featuring green. It is overpowered compared to many other commons.
I like the deck, but I am curious as to how it would hold up against all the mono-red goblin decks that seem to be ruling the format currently. I had to stop playing cause I was getting bored of seeing the same goblins over and over.
Bounce is one of the ways to replace Wonder...resolve an Aether Burst for 4 is pretty good.
You provide some interesting points- I had not thought of a more traditional card advantage spell (Mulldrifter anyone?). The issue is, you want to leave mana up for your opponents turn, and the instant card draw in Pauper is slim pickings.
Blastoderm is an interesting choice- I might look into it.