i dunno maybe it's the cunic in me as paul said, but there is this nagging feeling that the decision was made the way it was because of who brian kibler is.
the conspiracy theorist in me looks at the current state of the american economy and then looks at things like the pro tuor which is run by an american company and the sole goal of the tour is to promote sales.
did you know that dave williams was invited to play in worlds because he is a star poker player and magic player? his celebrity got him an invite to play despite not having any of the other required stats for an invite.
is it so hard to imagine that brian kibler who is now in the running for hall of fame and some one that grew up on the tour be given a lil favor in addition to the fact that half a dozen judges and spotters didnt see the mistake? whats better for the game at this point to make a profit? resetting the entire match or just letting kibler through or disqualifying him and letting hyper through? keep in mind this is during a pt top 8 with a live web cast and not the swiss rds.
sorry if i sound crazy, i ussaly dont go for all this nonsense but it seems so logical to me.
Hey man, MTGO is glad to have people like you join the online atmosphere.
I have been playing since Revised. I quit playing paper and joined MTGO during the IPA sets (very end, more towards OTJ). I sold all of my paper cards back in 2002/3/4ish time-period. That was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Especially now that I look back and see what some of the cards that I had are going for these days....
BUT...
1. Online,I never have a problem finding a game these days. I have the ability to play against countless competitors with countless strategies. Rarely do you play 2 similar decks out of 10 like I did when I was playing paper... essentially, the competition is limitless.
2. You are right about how hard it CAN be to get into paper. You go to the local nerd-porium, and there are a bunch of Vets who do not always have the time to take new players under their wings....
Love the commentary free videos. Not that I dislike commentary, but these work well. It's been a fun look at the standard meta, this series has. This article makes a strong case for turbo fog and it looks really powerful. Good luck!
Im going to have to agree with paul here, especially considering the list of superstars how have received DQ's in the past, I believe on of the Ruel brothers had even a ban and a star from japan which I want to say was Tsumura or Fujita though Im not clear. Magic is one sport that does not need to promote anyone over anything but skill. Otherwise I would totally campaign for GerryT to be the face of magic just because I like his curmudgeon persona.
For Quest of Pure Flame - have you tried Flame Fussilade or the Giant that does the same thing? With the warrens, token creators, etc, might be nice. Or you could even use Prot Red critters and Pyrohemia.
With the Holy Relic, did you think of adding Twilight Shepherd? Dropping her with the slayer will return the quest to hand for re-casting. Not sure how useful it is, but it's fun.
For Quest of ancient secrets, I would think about a Dredge / Living Death deck where you could abuse the opponant not having a graveyard to get critters from.
Yeah after playing the deck Im about 6-0 so far in the casual room. I dont think Ive played a single Oblivion Ring yet though. I think with the amount of time this card actually shows up Im going to have to try Thorn of Amethyst. And the mana base for this deck is amazing. For under 5 tickets I think Im running 4 Wooded Bastion, 4 Graypelt Refuge, and 4 Ancient Ziggurat plus 8/4 Plains/Forests and I have never been unable to cast a turn 2 True Believer, turn 3 Heartwood Storyteller, turn 4 Guardian Seraph.
You are implying something that just isn't true. WotC/DCI does not overlook fraud because they like someone or want someone to promote their product. That would end up looking very bad for them. Your implication does you no justice and only paints you as unreasonably cynical.
I have a casual room deck that I called "WG Goblins" because, like Legacy goblins, every creature has a powerful ability and costs just 1 or 2. It just now occurred to me that Fish is a more apt comparison. And the Pridemage, Canonist, and Teeg are in my build, too. The Canonist in particular does some funny things. It's not just anti-storm, it prevents double Lightning Bolt, it prevents Harrow into anything, it prevents "Raise Dead this dude, cast this dude", it prevents lots of things. And since I'm playing a heavy creature deck with some equipment it doesn't bother me too much.
But I also run Skullclamp. -_- And not a single person has ever complained to me that Clamp is not casual. Oh but, Jitte, see Jitte isn't casual. No sir. People will harass you then drop if you put a Jitte on the stack. But Clamp? Sure run 4 Clamps, no problem. But don't you dare cast a turn 1 Duress! Nevinyrral's Disk? Cool card. Wrath of God? "No thanks I want to have fun *drop*". The reason I bring this up is because you suggested Jitte/Warhammer somewhere in your article. But Jitte is on this mysterious banned list that brings out the red mana in people. So instead, "Clamp/Warhammer".
yeah im disappointed in that simply becuase i wanted to pick it up cheap and figured it would not jump like it did so i waited...same thing actually happened with Pact of Negation. Another loss on my part.
Hacks that do any of the following are positively impossible on MTGO:
- look at your opponents hand
- trade hack (by messing with the other guy's confirm button or by adding cards)
- duplicate cards
- artificially or permanently changing the premium (foil) status of an object
- affecting the contents of a booster by means other than waiting for someone else to crack a booster before you
The MTGO client is thin and dumb. Nothing is sent to it that it doesn't need, as several successful reverse-engineers should attest. (Like millibot maybe.) Popular MMOs are almost thin, but certain hidden information has to be sent in order to implement the virtual world. For example, what equipment the people around you are wearing, what hidden monsters lie just ahead, etc. But none of that applies to MTGO. They can simply not send hand information until you tap Glasses of Urza. The key here is that Magic isn't real-time.
Trade hacking basically means packet forging. You have to forge both the contents (he put his foil Tolarian Academy in the trade window) and the source (*he* did it). If the server hears a message from Katastrope that "Hamtastic just gave me his Academy for free" then the server should reject it because it didn't come from Hamtastic. Auto-ban. Now if you can forge all that, you can do a lot of evil. How about a concession hack? All Mindslaver all the time. If the server is at all secure, this is impossible. Just make sure no one gets your password!
Each card/booster/etc on the server exists as its own object, and each object is linked to an account. Normally in online games, possessions are stored as part of your avatar's data, or as a series of numbers. (2x Potions, 1x Machine Gun, 0x Crowns, etc). But everything in MTGO exists as its own database record. Going from 0 Force of Wills owned up to 40 is not as easy as changing a 0 to a 40. You would actually have to print 40 new digital objects and set yourself as the owner. And if you can do that then you've got admin access to the MTGO server. Likewise, it is impossible to mess with the boosters, make something foil, alter a card, etc.
So it's not that Wizards has had no publicly known attacks, it's that the system isn't vulnerable like typical online games are. We're only complaining about usability and scalability because the security is good.
It's also an odd quirk of MTGO that 'exploits' don't do anything. In normal MMOs the property ownership is tied to the gameplay - seemless trading, new loot, and buying items. In MTGO-land we don't have that. Your collection isn't actively used during a game. And there's no way to glitch the game into giving you a bunch of ____ because there are so few ways to perform a transaction and all of those transactions are secure. If the prize pack awarding function is broken then it is broken for everyone and it'll be noticed VERY quickly.
A belated "Best of luck" to you. Regardless of your record, your preparatory series of articles have been both fun and edifying, particularly the game play videos.
You didn't mention how any arbitrarily large loop is unplayable on modo. The fact that certain decks are simply unplayable due to the client seems unconscientiable.
but the fact is that every one and their mother soon new that it was missed after the fact. gindy may half been being a jerk or not but regaurdless after the match was over he got dqed, with kiblar it seems that although the game was corrupted from an illegal play that he was given a grace because wotc wants to promote him as a celeb.
I had no idea the Shadowmoor lands were going for so cheap now... those are awesome options for cheap-ish Extended manabases now.
Here's a quick brainstorm of blue creatures that might be good in this deck:
Teferi (five plus triple blue though), Fatespinner, Meddling Mage, Cursecatcher, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Martyr of Frost (requires a big blue investment), Spiketail Drakeling, Grimoire Thief, Looter il-Kor, Mistmeadow Witch, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Cephalid Constable, Trygon Predator, Vendilion Clique, Glen-Elendra Archmage, Mystic Snake, Swans of Brynn Argol
I assume that the card system is some sort of database, with RI up the wazoo. I know from work how hard it is to make sure that a database with strong RI to do what it's not supposed to do is. I don't think the card side is a big issue, if there were to be any form of offensive I expect it would be aimed at the client, not the card end of the game.
if you keep with the filter lands from shadowmoor and eventide the mana should be relatively easy since both Mystic Gate and Flooded Strand are only going for about a dollar. Seaside Citadel is also always a consideration though the CIPT is not so great.
All of the comments that made assume the the "online" PT would be played at location, just like a real PT - so all of these costs would still have to be payed in addition to the additional costs of the systems to play.
If you are talking about a true online PT - ie no central location and everyone in their underwear at home... that absolutly will never happen. The difficulty of navigating online gambling laws of each locallity (including federal/state/international) the players participate in would preclude any kind of cash tournament being played on the regular MTGO servers. This is one of the reasons why the MOCS was finished at Worlds rather than online.
i dunno maybe it's the cunic in me as paul said, but there is this nagging feeling that the decision was made the way it was because of who brian kibler is.
the conspiracy theorist in me looks at the current state of the american economy and then looks at things like the pro tuor which is run by an american company and the sole goal of the tour is to promote sales.
did you know that dave williams was invited to play in worlds because he is a star poker player and magic player? his celebrity got him an invite to play despite not having any of the other required stats for an invite.
is it so hard to imagine that brian kibler who is now in the running for hall of fame and some one that grew up on the tour be given a lil favor in addition to the fact that half a dozen judges and spotters didnt see the mistake? whats better for the game at this point to make a profit? resetting the entire match or just letting kibler through or disqualifying him and letting hyper through? keep in mind this is during a pt top 8 with a live web cast and not the swiss rds.
sorry if i sound crazy, i ussaly dont go for all this nonsense but it seems so logical to me.
Hey man, MTGO is glad to have people like you join the online atmosphere.
I have been playing since Revised. I quit playing paper and joined MTGO during the IPA sets (very end, more towards OTJ). I sold all of my paper cards back in 2002/3/4ish time-period. That was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Especially now that I look back and see what some of the cards that I had are going for these days....
BUT...
1. Online,I never have a problem finding a game these days. I have the ability to play against countless competitors with countless strategies. Rarely do you play 2 similar decks out of 10 like I did when I was playing paper... essentially, the competition is limitless.
2. You are right about how hard it CAN be to get into paper. You go to the local nerd-porium, and there are a bunch of Vets who do not always have the time to take new players under their wings....
Love the commentary free videos. Not that I dislike commentary, but these work well. It's been a fun look at the standard meta, this series has. This article makes a strong case for turbo fog and it looks really powerful. Good luck!
Im going to have to agree with paul here, especially considering the list of superstars how have received DQ's in the past, I believe on of the Ruel brothers had even a ban and a star from japan which I want to say was Tsumura or Fujita though Im not clear. Magic is one sport that does not need to promote anyone over anything but skill. Otherwise I would totally campaign for GerryT to be the face of magic just because I like his curmudgeon persona.
For Quest of Pure Flame - have you tried Flame Fussilade or the Giant that does the same thing? With the warrens, token creators, etc, might be nice. Or you could even use Prot Red critters and Pyrohemia.
With the Holy Relic, did you think of adding Twilight Shepherd? Dropping her with the slayer will return the quest to hand for re-casting. Not sure how useful it is, but it's fun.
For Quest of ancient secrets, I would think about a Dredge / Living Death deck where you could abuse the opponant not having a graveyard to get critters from.
V/R
HK
Yeah after playing the deck Im about 6-0 so far in the casual room. I dont think Ive played a single Oblivion Ring yet though. I think with the amount of time this card actually shows up Im going to have to try Thorn of Amethyst. And the mana base for this deck is amazing. For under 5 tickets I think Im running 4 Wooded Bastion, 4 Graypelt Refuge, and 4 Ancient Ziggurat plus 8/4 Plains/Forests and I have never been unable to cast a turn 2 True Believer, turn 3 Heartwood Storyteller, turn 4 Guardian Seraph.
You are implying something that just isn't true. WotC/DCI does not overlook fraud because they like someone or want someone to promote their product. That would end up looking very bad for them. Your implication does you no justice and only paints you as unreasonably cynical.
You're definitely right about the Canonist, it prevents a whole bunch more plays than I was giving it credit for.
I have a casual room deck that I called "WG Goblins" because, like Legacy goblins, every creature has a powerful ability and costs just 1 or 2. It just now occurred to me that Fish is a more apt comparison. And the Pridemage, Canonist, and Teeg are in my build, too. The Canonist in particular does some funny things. It's not just anti-storm, it prevents double Lightning Bolt, it prevents Harrow into anything, it prevents "Raise Dead this dude, cast this dude", it prevents lots of things. And since I'm playing a heavy creature deck with some equipment it doesn't bother me too much.
But I also run Skullclamp. -_- And not a single person has ever complained to me that Clamp is not casual. Oh but, Jitte, see Jitte isn't casual. No sir. People will harass you then drop if you put a Jitte on the stack. But Clamp? Sure run 4 Clamps, no problem. But don't you dare cast a turn 1 Duress! Nevinyrral's Disk? Cool card. Wrath of God? "No thanks I want to have fun *drop*". The reason I bring this up is because you suggested Jitte/Warhammer somewhere in your article. But Jitte is on this mysterious banned list that brings out the red mana in people. So instead, "Clamp/Warhammer".
Along side Thorn of Amethyst I've also used Damping Matrix. It's like Null Rod, but way easier to trade for.
yeah im disappointed in that simply becuase i wanted to pick it up cheap and figured it would not jump like it did so i waited...same thing actually happened with Pact of Negation. Another loss on my part.
Hacks that do any of the following are positively impossible on MTGO:
- look at your opponents hand
- trade hack (by messing with the other guy's confirm button or by adding cards)
- duplicate cards
- artificially or permanently changing the premium (foil) status of an object
- affecting the contents of a booster by means other than waiting for someone else to crack a booster before you
The MTGO client is thin and dumb. Nothing is sent to it that it doesn't need, as several successful reverse-engineers should attest. (Like millibot maybe.) Popular MMOs are almost thin, but certain hidden information has to be sent in order to implement the virtual world. For example, what equipment the people around you are wearing, what hidden monsters lie just ahead, etc. But none of that applies to MTGO. They can simply not send hand information until you tap Glasses of Urza. The key here is that Magic isn't real-time.
Trade hacking basically means packet forging. You have to forge both the contents (he put his foil Tolarian Academy in the trade window) and the source (*he* did it). If the server hears a message from Katastrope that "Hamtastic just gave me his Academy for free" then the server should reject it because it didn't come from Hamtastic. Auto-ban. Now if you can forge all that, you can do a lot of evil. How about a concession hack? All Mindslaver all the time. If the server is at all secure, this is impossible. Just make sure no one gets your password!
Each card/booster/etc on the server exists as its own object, and each object is linked to an account. Normally in online games, possessions are stored as part of your avatar's data, or as a series of numbers. (2x Potions, 1x Machine Gun, 0x Crowns, etc). But everything in MTGO exists as its own database record. Going from 0 Force of Wills owned up to 40 is not as easy as changing a 0 to a 40. You would actually have to print 40 new digital objects and set yourself as the owner. And if you can do that then you've got admin access to the MTGO server. Likewise, it is impossible to mess with the boosters, make something foil, alter a card, etc.
So it's not that Wizards has had no publicly known attacks, it's that the system isn't vulnerable like typical online games are. We're only complaining about usability and scalability because the security is good.
It's also an odd quirk of MTGO that 'exploits' don't do anything. In normal MMOs the property ownership is tied to the gameplay - seemless trading, new loot, and buying items. In MTGO-land we don't have that. Your collection isn't actively used during a game. And there's no way to glitch the game into giving you a bunch of ____ because there are so few ways to perform a transaction and all of those transactions are secure. If the prize pack awarding function is broken then it is broken for everyone and it'll be noticed VERY quickly.
A belated "Best of luck" to you. Regardless of your record, your preparatory series of articles have been both fun and edifying, particularly the game play videos.
Even Emeria Angel was under a ticket before Worlds, but spiked up a bit...
lol yeah i love me some cheap angels...after picking up guardian seraphs to try this deck i think i have a basic budget angel deck
4 Battlegrace Angel
4 Stoic Angel
4 Guardian Seraph
4 Blinding Angel
4 Empyrial Angel
but who knows
Ahh yes ... I forgot about Stoic Angel .. always wanted to get them, but never got around to it .... ha ... 12 cents a copy, really? yes pleeez
I think you're looking for Pete's article, why online based PTs are a bad idea.
This editorial was about the good stuff. :)
You didn't mention how any arbitrarily large loop is unplayable on modo. The fact that certain decks are simply unplayable due to the client seems unconscientiable.
but the fact is that every one and their mother soon new that it was missed after the fact. gindy may half been being a jerk or not but regaurdless after the match was over he got dqed, with kiblar it seems that although the game was corrupted from an illegal play that he was given a grace because wotc wants to promote him as a celeb.
Also Surgespanner and Stoic Angel can work as well.
Edit: These cpatcha's are rather tiresome especially when im logged in to my account
I had no idea the Shadowmoor lands were going for so cheap now... those are awesome options for cheap-ish Extended manabases now.
Here's a quick brainstorm of blue creatures that might be good in this deck:
Teferi (five plus triple blue though), Fatespinner, Meddling Mage, Cursecatcher, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Martyr of Frost (requires a big blue investment), Spiketail Drakeling, Grimoire Thief, Looter il-Kor, Mistmeadow Witch, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Cephalid Constable, Trygon Predator, Vendilion Clique, Glen-Elendra Archmage, Mystic Snake, Swans of Brynn Argol
I assume that the card system is some sort of database, with RI up the wazoo. I know from work how hard it is to make sure that a database with strong RI to do what it's not supposed to do is. I don't think the card side is a big issue, if there were to be any form of offensive I expect it would be aimed at the client, not the card end of the game.
The Ancient Ziggurat would also get me there .... any ideas of other blue creatures that have static abilities that mess with the opponent?
if you keep with the filter lands from shadowmoor and eventide the mana should be relatively easy since both Mystic Gate and Flooded Strand are only going for about a dollar. Seaside Citadel is also always a consideration though the CIPT is not so great.
All of the comments that made assume the the "online" PT would be played at location, just like a real PT - so all of these costs would still have to be payed in addition to the additional costs of the systems to play.
If you are talking about a true online PT - ie no central location and everyone in their underwear at home... that absolutly will never happen. The difficulty of navigating online gambling laws of each locallity (including federal/state/international) the players participate in would preclude any kind of cash tournament being played on the regular MTGO servers. This is one of the reasons why the MOCS was finished at Worlds rather than online.