If Wizards is not maintaining the B/R list to your liking, what is to say the PRE organizers can't update it on their own for their events. If extinction or another card is causing problems simply ban them from further PRE events =)
-Jed
He drafted in a swiss from the payout on the packs. I like drafting U/W beats a lot. I would like to see this author go into a 4-3-2-2 draft next time. I feel perhaps his play skills are up to par, I am curious however if he has the intangables to draft in the next level. 4-3-2-2 during 8 pm at night est is shark infested waters. I'd advise staying out of the 8-4's though. The risk is no where near the reward right now with the value of certain cards to rare draft ie fetches off color, a handful of mythics, and a couple of rares. I wish you happy hunting in packs and a clear mind next time!
I still think the B/R list needs serious consideration by WoTC and to that end those who are helping form the format should have a clear idea of what changes need to take place (if any). Hopefully I will be around this time for the PRE.
Thanks for commenting. Shardfenix has hit the nail on the head. If I hadn't picked up my copies of Day of Judgement in drafts, there is no way I would have included them in the decklist. $20 isn't all that much for a playset of a solid card that your're going to get a lot of use out of, but there are lots of cards that I want to buy, and I can't spend that much while there are cheaper options available. Not to the mention the 2nd decklist is already on the expensive side. However, my limitations are mine alone and if you have or desire a playset of DoJ, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't take them into the casual room. But for those who choke at the idea of spending $10 on 2 cards, I offered ideas on replacements.
Just my two cents, Phirana Marsh shouldnt be played, its effect is to marginal for its drawback. Except for some crazy bouncing it long game plan thingy, youre essentially running a comes into play tapped swamp.
I had thought about the 'return permanent with Journey to Nowhere on the stack' trick with Narrow Escape, but for whatever reason it escaped me that Into the Roil could be used in a similar way. Definitely a good point. I think at the time I was concerned if I main-decked all three Into the Roils I end up drawing all three at once (the shuffler is usually quite unkind to me!), and that didn't sound like a great place to be at. Still, in hindsight, taking the 3rd Into the Roil is probably the better choice, especially since I didn't even end up playing the Bold Defense.
No question, Journey-ing the Lotus Cobra was a mistake. It was more of an emotional reaction - 'Whoa, Lotus Cobra! Mythic rare! Kill it, kill it!' than any rational thought. The fact that the Gladehart came down and probably cost me the game next round definitely reinforced that lesson!
I also realized later that I misunderstood Noble Vestige. It really is quite poor!
Finally, no offense, but just because the other players in a queue are making poor choices, this hardly means that my choices were pure luck. I still had to recognize the colors that were coming back my way and make good choices about which ones to take when. It is easier when your opponents are making sub-par decisions? Sure it is. But to say that it is all luck at that point seems a bit of an oversimplification.
I liked Cancel in M10, but I'm still not completely convinced. Granted, it would have been a better pick the Timbermaw Larva for sure. But in the fast environment of Zendikar, I would prefer not to leave up the mana for Cancel until midgame at the earliest - otherwise, I think it's too easy for a player to play around.
You guys rocked the house! ;D Awesome playing yesterday. It was so worth it to not play (or do anything else of value) and just watch and root for you all! Some amazing plays from all of you brought home the CC victory and really made me feel apart of the CC Team as a spectator. Great Job! :) Your rewards are well deserved. :D
I would definitely have contemplated playing 18 land, what with 2 Lynx, 2 Eel, Emeria Angel and Adventuring Gear. Still, with a curve as low as yours was, it's probably fine that you didn't.
The only pick I strongly disagree with is P3P7; taking Bold Defense over a third Into the Roil. Now, I like Bold Defense, but it's incredibly hard to find a circumstance in which an Into the Roil isn't a card you want to have in your hand. With an aggressive deck like the one you ended up making, even the tempo boost of an unkicked Roil will often get you an extra few points of damage, and it provides an excellent answer to the fat tokens in the set (Baloth Cage Trap, Quest for the Gravelord, Zektar Shrine Expedition).
But beyond all of that, you had THREE Journey to Nowhere. For every time you draw Journey, that turns every single Into the Roil you have in that same hand into an additional Journey. (With the 'remove target guy' trigger on the stack, Into the Roil your own Journey to Nowhere. It leaving play tries to return the removed creature to the board, but since it hasn't actually been removed yet, the leaves play trigger ends up doing nothing. Then the RFG on the stack resolves, wiping the Journey'd creature out for all eternity.) The four mana version of this trick ends up 1-for-1ing them, while kicking the Into the Roil exiles their guy while costing you exactly zero cards, and leaving you with another removal spell in hand.
Regardless of what I've got to say, congrats on the win. You had a pretty sweet deck.
I think you're reporting this passage incorrectly:
"As Don only has two cards left in hand this turn I cast Bala Ged Thief and as I already have a Ally in play Don loses both of his cards from his hand which was 2 swamps, you never know it could have been worse! I don't attack and pass. Don plays Guul Draz Vampire and passes.
My turn comes round and I play Hagra Diabolist taking another card from Don's hand (a swamp)..."
Bala Ged Thief only ever takes one card at a time, more Allies just let you pick from more of their cards. Also, from your reporting of the next turn it's clear that Don had two swamps in hand, you took one with Thief, he drew and played Guul Draz, then you took the second swamp with Diabolist on your next turn.
As far as the deck goes, it definately shouldn't be Mono-Black. If you're running all Swamps then Mind Sludge does everything that Thief does, and does it better. I'd look to add a second color (probably white) so that Bala Ged is closer to the top of your Ally curve than the bottom.
maybe he is like me. i cant justify spending $x.oo on a playset of day of judgment when all you play is casual. Especially not when martial coup and planar cleansing and scour glass are all cheaper. If i was playing in tourneys to win though then the price would be worth it.
Nice draft walkthrough.
I like that you get to play all three rounds in swiss when you are learning a draft format but I hate that it is so hard to judge what colors your neighbors are in. It seems like at some points blue was getting cut but then you would get something strange like an umara raptor or windrider eel 8th pick so I'm not sure what was going on. I'm surprised at how late a lot of good cards were going around.
I wish I could draft 3 journey to nowheres in one draft :-)
Seen a list like the Reanimator deck when i was cruisin through WOTC mainpage from like two months ago. This is kindaw hat I mean. There was def a few new slants, but if this is news to SharpFedex and he's a contributor on here then it's a bit strange to me, yet I was more confused by the CC's choice to not put the Valuket in monoRed. Weirdos!
I don't really like MTGO because it really does not seem random. I've played roughly 100 games on there this week and in my experience, the game often gives people exactly what they need and other times land screws them. For example, opponent plays Baneslayer. I have no cards in hand. I draw Gatekeeper of Malakir...the only one left in the deck. When I played him, he just laughed because it was such a ridiculous draw. Similarly, staring down 8 points of damage with 3 health and no blockers, the only card that could save my opponent once was DoJ. He drew it. He told me he only had one in the deck.
Many times, the programming seems to get locked into a loop giving out mana. In one game, I had 18 lands on the board and two in hand. The worst part? I had 35 cards left in my deck. That means I only actually got to play 5 cards. My opponent had 17 lands as well! Several turns came and went as we BOTH kept drawing lands.
The mana ridiculousness has gotten to the point where I keep 1 land hands because I simply know I will be drawing them. I heavily consider 0 land hand sometimes if I am on the draw as well. This is a very bad sign for Magic Online when someone can keep 0 or 1 land hands because they are certain they will draw into land. That makes it no longer the same game.
I've just starte dplaying, but i mean in like last three months, as it has taken me a looooong time to get all these cards so i can even have a chance. And i hve watche alot of players, but there was a time when u were playing a lot. I dunno. Maybe thi sisnt the format for me, after all.
I've yet to read the meat of this article, but felt compelled to reply to the "casual" part.
Obviously people have differing opinions about what is casual or not for purposes of the casual rooms on MTGO. It seems whatever they are losing to is NOT their idea of casual. That's silly.
Some people whine about land destruction. Some people whine about counterspells. Some people whine about mill decks. And on, and on, and on.
I don't think it's fair to single out archtypes as casual or not.
My personal beef with the casual room has to do with "net decks". Sure, it might be fun to try out the awesome deck that just won the most recent Pro Tour. It might be fun to try some funky deck from a recent Grand Prix Top 8. Fun does not always equal casual, though. I can have fun in a business suit, but that doesn't make the suit casual.
The fact that there is a "tournament practice" room suggests to me that there was some intention to seperate serious decks from fun decks. The deck someone copies from the recent Pro Tour is serious. The silly deck someone tries to make around a garbage rare is casual. The deck some builds around their favourite tribe is casual (with some exceptions of course, such as when a tribal deck wins a PT).
I beleive it is important that proven, serious decks remain out of the casual room. It is important because people need a room to try silly stuff in. Most of us know our "home brew" deck will get killed by the recent PT winner, but trying homebrews is a HUGE part of this game.
People who's online collection is still growing need a place to play. We want these people to have fun. Scaring them away does nothing to promote the game.
If your real life Magic buddies pulled out net decks when you got together for fun games, would they be your buddies for long?
If Wizards is not maintaining the B/R list to your liking, what is to say the PRE organizers can't update it on their own for their events. If extinction or another card is causing problems simply ban them from further PRE events =)
-Jed
He drafted in a swiss from the payout on the packs. I like drafting U/W beats a lot. I would like to see this author go into a 4-3-2-2 draft next time. I feel perhaps his play skills are up to par, I am curious however if he has the intangables to draft in the next level. 4-3-2-2 during 8 pm at night est is shark infested waters. I'd advise staying out of the 8-4's though. The risk is no where near the reward right now with the value of certain cards to rare draft ie fetches off color, a handful of mythics, and a couple of rares. I wish you happy hunting in packs and a clear mind next time!
I still think the B/R list needs serious consideration by WoTC and to that end those who are helping form the format should have a clear idea of what changes need to take place (if any). Hopefully I will be around this time for the PRE.
Thanks for commenting. Shardfenix has hit the nail on the head. If I hadn't picked up my copies of Day of Judgement in drafts, there is no way I would have included them in the decklist. $20 isn't all that much for a playset of a solid card that your're going to get a lot of use out of, but there are lots of cards that I want to buy, and I can't spend that much while there are cheaper options available. Not to the mention the 2nd decklist is already on the expensive side. However, my limitations are mine alone and if you have or desire a playset of DoJ, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't take them into the casual room. But for those who choke at the idea of spending $10 on 2 cards, I offered ideas on replacements.
Just my two cents, Phirana Marsh shouldnt be played, its effect is to marginal for its drawback. Except for some crazy bouncing it long game plan thingy, youre essentially running a comes into play tapped swamp.
Well spotted, youre right I must have written it down wrong in my notes.
I'll look at the white allies and see what can be used.
I had thought about the 'return permanent with Journey to Nowhere on the stack' trick with Narrow Escape, but for whatever reason it escaped me that Into the Roil could be used in a similar way. Definitely a good point. I think at the time I was concerned if I main-decked all three Into the Roils I end up drawing all three at once (the shuffler is usually quite unkind to me!), and that didn't sound like a great place to be at. Still, in hindsight, taking the 3rd Into the Roil is probably the better choice, especially since I didn't even end up playing the Bold Defense.
No question, Journey-ing the Lotus Cobra was a mistake. It was more of an emotional reaction - 'Whoa, Lotus Cobra! Mythic rare! Kill it, kill it!' than any rational thought. The fact that the Gladehart came down and probably cost me the game next round definitely reinforced that lesson!
I also realized later that I misunderstood Noble Vestige. It really is quite poor!
Finally, no offense, but just because the other players in a queue are making poor choices, this hardly means that my choices were pure luck. I still had to recognize the colors that were coming back my way and make good choices about which ones to take when. It is easier when your opponents are making sub-par decisions? Sure it is. But to say that it is all luck at that point seems a bit of an oversimplification.
I liked Cancel in M10, but I'm still not completely convinced. Granted, it would have been a better pick the Timbermaw Larva for sure. But in the fast environment of Zendikar, I would prefer not to leave up the mana for Cancel until midgame at the earliest - otherwise, I think it's too easy for a player to play around.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcove...
You guys rocked the house! ;D Awesome playing yesterday. It was so worth it to not play (or do anything else of value) and just watch and root for you all! Some amazing plays from all of you brought home the CC victory and really made me feel apart of the CC Team as a spectator. Great Job! :) Your rewards are well deserved. :D
I would definitely have contemplated playing 18 land, what with 2 Lynx, 2 Eel, Emeria Angel and Adventuring Gear. Still, with a curve as low as yours was, it's probably fine that you didn't.
The only pick I strongly disagree with is P3P7; taking Bold Defense over a third Into the Roil. Now, I like Bold Defense, but it's incredibly hard to find a circumstance in which an Into the Roil isn't a card you want to have in your hand. With an aggressive deck like the one you ended up making, even the tempo boost of an unkicked Roil will often get you an extra few points of damage, and it provides an excellent answer to the fat tokens in the set (Baloth Cage Trap, Quest for the Gravelord, Zektar Shrine Expedition).
But beyond all of that, you had THREE Journey to Nowhere. For every time you draw Journey, that turns every single Into the Roil you have in that same hand into an additional Journey. (With the 'remove target guy' trigger on the stack, Into the Roil your own Journey to Nowhere. It leaving play tries to return the removed creature to the board, but since it hasn't actually been removed yet, the leaves play trigger ends up doing nothing. Then the RFG on the stack resolves, wiping the Journey'd creature out for all eternity.) The four mana version of this trick ends up 1-for-1ing them, while kicking the Into the Roil exiles their guy while costing you exactly zero cards, and leaving you with another removal spell in hand.
Regardless of what I've got to say, congrats on the win. You had a pretty sweet deck.
I think you're reporting this passage incorrectly:
"As Don only has two cards left in hand this turn I cast Bala Ged Thief and as I already have a Ally in play Don loses both of his cards from his hand which was 2 swamps, you never know it could have been worse! I don't attack and pass. Don plays Guul Draz Vampire and passes.
My turn comes round and I play Hagra Diabolist taking another card from Don's hand (a swamp)..."
Bala Ged Thief only ever takes one card at a time, more Allies just let you pick from more of their cards. Also, from your reporting of the next turn it's clear that Don had two swamps in hand, you took one with Thief, he drew and played Guul Draz, then you took the second swamp with Diabolist on your next turn.
As far as the deck goes, it definately shouldn't be Mono-Black. If you're running all Swamps then Mind Sludge does everything that Thief does, and does it better. I'd look to add a second color (probably white) so that Bala Ged is closer to the top of your Ally curve than the bottom.
maybe he is like me. i cant justify spending $x.oo on a playset of day of judgment when all you play is casual. Especially not when martial coup and planar cleansing and scour glass are all cheaper. If i was playing in tourneys to win though then the price would be worth it.
Nice draft walkthrough.
I like that you get to play all three rounds in swiss when you are learning a draft format but I hate that it is so hard to judge what colors your neighbors are in. It seems like at some points blue was getting cut but then you would get something strange like an umara raptor or windrider eel 8th pick so I'm not sure what was going on. I'm surprised at how late a lot of good cards were going around.
I wish I could draft 3 journey to nowheres in one draft :-)
He can be such a savage little helper monkey!
Any BSG fans on here? Trying to make friends in Minneapolis. New here.
Yeah, man I would totally protect that dude!
Seen a list like the Reanimator deck when i was cruisin through WOTC mainpage from like two months ago. This is kindaw hat I mean. There was def a few new slants, but if this is news to SharpFedex and he's a contributor on here then it's a bit strange to me, yet I was more confused by the CC's choice to not put the Valuket in monoRed. Weirdos!
Tarmo's Asian? WTH!!!???
What's happened in CC? Did we win!?
I don't really like MTGO because it really does not seem random. I've played roughly 100 games on there this week and in my experience, the game often gives people exactly what they need and other times land screws them. For example, opponent plays Baneslayer. I have no cards in hand. I draw Gatekeeper of Malakir...the only one left in the deck. When I played him, he just laughed because it was such a ridiculous draw. Similarly, staring down 8 points of damage with 3 health and no blockers, the only card that could save my opponent once was DoJ. He drew it. He told me he only had one in the deck.
Many times, the programming seems to get locked into a loop giving out mana. In one game, I had 18 lands on the board and two in hand. The worst part? I had 35 cards left in my deck. That means I only actually got to play 5 cards. My opponent had 17 lands as well! Several turns came and went as we BOTH kept drawing lands.
The mana ridiculousness has gotten to the point where I keep 1 land hands because I simply know I will be drawing them. I heavily consider 0 land hand sometimes if I am on the draw as well. This is a very bad sign for Magic Online when someone can keep 0 or 1 land hands because they are certain they will draw into land. That makes it no longer the same game.
0o..
PUMKIN CHUNKIN!!!
I've just starte dplaying, but i mean in like last three months, as it has taken me a looooong time to get all these cards so i can even have a chance. And i hve watche alot of players, but there was a time when u were playing a lot. I dunno. Maybe thi sisnt the format for me, after all.
Quit stalkin me shardpenix.
I've yet to read the meat of this article, but felt compelled to reply to the "casual" part.
Obviously people have differing opinions about what is casual or not for purposes of the casual rooms on MTGO. It seems whatever they are losing to is NOT their idea of casual. That's silly.
Some people whine about land destruction. Some people whine about counterspells. Some people whine about mill decks. And on, and on, and on.
I don't think it's fair to single out archtypes as casual or not.
My personal beef with the casual room has to do with "net decks". Sure, it might be fun to try out the awesome deck that just won the most recent Pro Tour. It might be fun to try some funky deck from a recent Grand Prix Top 8. Fun does not always equal casual, though. I can have fun in a business suit, but that doesn't make the suit casual.
The fact that there is a "tournament practice" room suggests to me that there was some intention to seperate serious decks from fun decks. The deck someone copies from the recent Pro Tour is serious. The silly deck someone tries to make around a garbage rare is casual. The deck some builds around their favourite tribe is casual (with some exceptions of course, such as when a tribal deck wins a PT).
I beleive it is important that proven, serious decks remain out of the casual room. It is important because people need a room to try silly stuff in. Most of us know our "home brew" deck will get killed by the recent PT winner, but trying homebrews is a HUGE part of this game.
People who's online collection is still growing need a place to play. We want these people to have fun. Scaring them away does nothing to promote the game.
If your real life Magic buddies pulled out net decks when you got together for fun games, would they be your buddies for long?
Enlisted Wurm instead of BBE would be sweetah
...and the ramp deck! Whiners can be heard haunting many corridors og MTGO I carry an Ank of Mishra to ward them off.