Yeah I used to love Chris Miller's articles, and I'm definitely bummed he doesn't write for the mothership anymore. He used to come up with such awesome Both his deck and yours are both very cool, and I definitely should have mentioned something about Pandemonium in my article. Cream of the Crop is a great idea too.
i dont know i would replace curse of chains with journey to nowhere and just redo the lands when springjack pastures leave, this would be standard for a while then.
Nice article, it's always a pleasure to see someone building a deck around a reject rare or other cards that are not Tier 1, Tier 2 or any Tier at all :D (especially for an über-Johnny like me).
But you're not the first to have this idea: former House of Cards columnist Chris Millar originally built a deck around the combo in http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/cm46 called "Norin-demonium" when Time Spiral was the new hotness. He added things like Primal Forcemage (very good for the Viashinos) and Pandemonium (capable of finishing games when you have some Glitterfangs in hand along with a Forcemage).
I adapted the idea and play a casual Classic variant of the deck since around mid-2007 (see http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=18385). And with Morningtide came Cream of the Crop, which greatly helps finding the combo pieces (and land/nonland, whichever you need) even if you don't have a Forcemage out (Norin has 2 power, which is very useful for CotC).
Anyway, great article. I think I will give Genesis Chamber a try in my deck, and maybe add some burn (Lightning Helix from your RW-Classic version being the first choice, I think).
I find amusing that your classic version of the deck is only classic due to the enlightened tutor and the dual lands. I have built a vintage version of this deck: just replace a seething song with a black lotus. :)
When I need a hard-remove-fatty, I also go for empyrial archangel. Shroud + absorb damage is nice (unless your opp has more than 8 power in play, that is).
I like that deck! I was the affinity player that you played at the end :-)
I was wondering if there are enough GB spells that Mimic is worth it? On the casual side, I can think of Augur of Skulls and the new Vampire Hexmage that combo well with Savra. Or you can take the route of sac outlets like Plagued Rusalka and run Quest for the Gravelord and Shriekmaw... just a few ideas
I've been playing around Polymorph + big guy for a while and its belong to the casual room only.
I have to to say that its really fun to cheat a progenitus into play and get a concession.
Just to share with everybody that likes it, here is another decklist:
I think the Worship player was just so confused about what was going on and didn't really "get" Confusion in the Ranks. One fun thing about playing unconventional cards like Confusion is that many opponents often make some really bizarre plays when it's on the table.
Good catch on the SPGTODO... JXC can you fix that one?
Your opponent who 'donated' you their Worship - couldn't he/she have cast another enchantment to get his Worship back? No game with Confusion In The Ranks on the table is ever lost! I'd never concede.
Norin the Wary 'trick': cast one. Then cast another. The first will leave play, the second will enter play safely. If you can make the second one run away then you can get the "enters the battlefield" triggers from both Norins. (Who will then die.)
Steel Golem: here you go, sir! The best part is that they can't cast another creature to "regift" him.
^ riffing off the colossus thing, I originally misread your first sentence. I thought you vacationed in Sardia!
I heard that "the pros" (you know, those guys) were testing Polymorph-Progenitus when it was spoiled late for M10. Then I never heard of it again until now. This deck does make me smile.
Most of your sphinxes, the leviathan, and the DSC are artifacts. Master Transmuter is no good for you but there's gotta be some way to take advantage of their artifact-ness. Maybe not in Standard.
Evoke creatures are nuts with confusion in the ranks. Just stack it so that you evoke your mulldrifter:
draw two cards
swap with your opponent's fatty
sacrifice mulldrifter
then titter away to yourself. I also enjoy using echo creatures (like that bounce goblin whose name evades me). Kher keep hadn't occured to me at all. Good choice!
Yikes - can't believe I forgot Impulse! Seriously, very glad you are there to help me out folks - will add to the master article. That looks like a valuable insight into Gifts as well, will edit. The LED comment is just embarrassing since I've used that card a ton and should know better. Ok, guys, keep the comments coming.
All is in the title, and i believe i cant imagine the work behind this article as blue has an impressive useful cards count. Big up BoB for this awesome work. Staple article def.
only 1 comment : i think Impulse could be mentioned as it is a decent blue digging tutor with suffle effet.
Funny combo. Of course blue is the king of bouncing creatures: Dreamstalker, Man O War, Tradewind Riders, Cavern Harpy (though off color a bit), Crystal Shard etc. And white has Stonecloaker Stormfront Riders (makes tokens!) and other critters that bounce.
I was thinking you could call the deck "All Rhodes lead to..." but then realized it was a very bad joke. Nice job with the Polymorphs though I have to say Id not be happy to see that resolve unless it's on my side of the table. Id probably go with more counters and draw and maybe switch out red entirely for green to run things like Woodfall Primus etc. But I suspect that would take it out of standard entirely. (Which it will be soon anyway.)
nice stuff again. quick note on gifts ungiven
tho while we lack welder and yawgs will it is used sometimes as a double entomb effect in vintage to ensure only 2 cards you want are binned [by selecting only 2].
lion's eye cannot be stifled it will not use stack .why was serendib so low he is a staple in fae stompy?
Solid coverage this week of 2 possibly key archetypes in ZEN limited dude.
I (unfortunately) agree with most of your assessments. (I like arguing ;))
One that I saw and have never drafted and don't think I would, is Windborn Charge. I have yet to see one resolve, but I avoid this type of card mainly because it's sorta conditional.
Hellfire Mongrel: I really do like him in MonoR. He can really make an opponent squirm late game, and yes he can be played around, but that means them not playing cards from their hand, not bad.
Molten Ravager: I have to agree, I don't like seeing this guy on my side of the table. But in his defense, he isn't all that bad. 4 toughness is tough to kill or block profitably. You have classic "threat of activation" stuff going on as well. I mean if we drop him turn 3, and swing next turn, we should have some decent options. If he is blocked, we can decide if we should pump to take out the blocker, if he isn't, well 4 damage is a nice chunk in Red which usually has reach problems. Jury is still out on this guy in MonoR imo.
Bladetusk Boar is awesome. Man giving red relevant sometimes better than flying evasion on a 3 power body feels like it's pushing it a bit. As a result, we have one of the chase creatures for red in the set.
Burst Lightning/Punishing Fire: These feel so underwhelming during play. The threats I want to take out always seem to be 3 toughness. Namely Kor Skyfisher and Vampire Nighthawk. Obv they are still good, but the don't feel as good as Lightning Bolt and Resounding Thunder did.
Spire Barrage was massively good in monoR. Just sick good.
Unstable Footing: I wonder if the fact that it's an instant matters much.
Zektar Shrine: Nice thing about that is that you don't need to actually play it on T2 anyway. You can just drop it on 3, then drop a land and be at the same point you would have been anyway, but with a Geopede online and attacking for 3 with first strike. Seems pretty sweet.
Great stuff as always dude, looking forward to doing the next podcast!
Yeah I used to love Chris Miller's articles, and I'm definitely bummed he doesn't write for the mothership anymore. He used to come up with such awesome Both his deck and yours are both very cool, and I definitely should have mentioned something about Pandemonium in my article. Cream of the Crop is a great idea too.
Thanks for the feedback man!
Enlightened Tutor is just that unique. Fabricate and Idyllic Tutor can work, but they are more expensive and not as versatile.
Make sure to replace a Mountain with Mox Jet in your Vintage list =)
I tried to put that in bob, and I could not make it happen.
i dont know i would replace curse of chains with journey to nowhere and just redo the lands when springjack pastures leave, this would be standard for a while then.
Nice article, it's always a pleasure to see someone building a deck around a reject rare or other cards that are not Tier 1, Tier 2 or any Tier at all :D (especially for an über-Johnny like me).
But you're not the first to have this idea: former House of Cards columnist Chris Millar originally built a deck around the combo in http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/cm46 called "Norin-demonium" when Time Spiral was the new hotness. He added things like Primal Forcemage (very good for the Viashinos) and Pandemonium (capable of finishing games when you have some Glitterfangs in hand along with a Forcemage).
I adapted the idea and play a casual Classic variant of the deck since around mid-2007 (see http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=18385). And with Morningtide came Cream of the Crop, which greatly helps finding the combo pieces (and land/nonland, whichever you need) even if you don't have a Forcemage out (Norin has 2 power, which is very useful for CotC).
Anyway, great article. I think I will give Genesis Chamber a try in my deck, and maybe add some burn (Lightning Helix from your RW-Classic version being the first choice, I think).
I find amusing that your classic version of the deck is only classic due to the enlightened tutor and the dual lands. I have built a vintage version of this deck: just replace a seething song with a black lotus. :)
When I need a hard-remove-fatty, I also go for empyrial archangel. Shroud + absorb damage is nice (unless your opp has more than 8 power in play, that is).
I like that deck! I was the affinity player that you played at the end :-)
I was wondering if there are enough GB spells that Mimic is worth it? On the casual side, I can think of Augur of Skulls and the new Vampire Hexmage that combo well with Savra. Or you can take the route of sac outlets like Plagued Rusalka and run Quest for the Gravelord and Shriekmaw... just a few ideas
I've been playing around Polymorph + big guy for a while and its belong to the casual room only.
I have to to say that its really fun to cheat a progenitus into play and get a concession.
Just to share with everybody that likes it, here is another decklist:
Polymorph targets:
2 Call of the Herd
4 Dragon Fodder
4 Gilt-Leaf Ambush
4 Goblin Assault
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Wurmcalling
Mana Ramp to a Polymorph on T3 or to thin the deck:
3 Armillary Sphere
4 Fertile Ground
4 Rampant Growth
Polymorphs:
1 Beseech the Queen
4 Polymorph
Big guy:
2 Progenitus
Mana base:
9 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
5 Mountain
1 Island
2 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
4 Treetop Village
Nice article man!
Have Fun
Good Game
Good call on the evoke creatures, I thought for sure I talked about Ingot Chewer in this article - but apparently it slipped my mind.
If you run any sort of blue controll-ish version of the deck, it definitely makes sense to run Mulldrifter. Good call.
I think the Worship player was just so confused about what was going on and didn't really "get" Confusion in the Ranks. One fun thing about playing unconventional cards like Confusion is that many opponents often make some really bizarre plays when it's on the table.
Good catch on the SPGTODO... JXC can you fix that one?
Your opponent who 'donated' you their Worship - couldn't he/she have cast another enchantment to get his Worship back? No game with Confusion In The Ranks on the table is ever lost! I'd never concede.
Norin the Wary 'trick': cast one. Then cast another. The first will leave play, the second will enter play safely. If you can make the second one run away then you can get the "enters the battlefield" triggers from both Norins. (Who will then die.)
Steel Golem: here you go, sir! The best part is that they can't cast another creature to "regift" him.
You missed a "SPGTODO" in there. :) The link to substitute is here: http://puremtgo.com/node/1305
^ riffing off the colossus thing, I originally misread your first sentence. I thought you vacationed in Sardia!
I heard that "the pros" (you know, those guys) were testing Polymorph-Progenitus when it was spoiled late for M10. Then I never heard of it again until now. This deck does make me smile.
Most of your sphinxes, the leviathan, and the DSC are artifacts. Master Transmuter is no good for you but there's gotta be some way to take advantage of their artifact-ness. Maybe not in Standard.
Evoke creatures are nuts with confusion in the ranks. Just stack it so that you evoke your mulldrifter:
draw two cards
swap with your opponent's fatty
sacrifice mulldrifter
then titter away to yourself. I also enjoy using echo creatures (like that bounce goblin whose name evades me). Kher keep hadn't occured to me at all. Good choice!
Yikes - can't believe I forgot Impulse! Seriously, very glad you are there to help me out folks - will add to the master article. That looks like a valuable insight into Gifts as well, will edit. The LED comment is just embarrassing since I've used that card a ton and should know better. Ok, guys, keep the comments coming.
I just wanted to do you the favor of RRRRR.
All is in the title, and i believe i cant imagine the work behind this article as blue has an impressive useful cards count. Big up BoB for this awesome work. Staple article def.
only 1 comment : i think Impulse could be mentioned as it is a decent blue digging tutor with suffle effet.
once again, ty for that incredibly long list !
Most excellent primer again. Thanks Bob! I am slowly picking up singles here and there to be more competitive in classic-lite (aka 100cs).
5 point burn at the rating.
Very nice article, BoB. Still, it disgusts me how many powerful cards blue really has when you see the complete list.
Funny combo. Of course blue is the king of bouncing creatures: Dreamstalker, Man O War, Tradewind Riders, Cavern Harpy (though off color a bit), Crystal Shard etc. And white has Stonecloaker Stormfront Riders (makes tokens!) and other critters that bounce.
I was thinking you could call the deck "All Rhodes lead to..." but then realized it was a very bad joke. Nice job with the Polymorphs though I have to say Id not be happy to see that resolve unless it's on my side of the table. Id probably go with more counters and draw and maybe switch out red entirely for green to run things like Woodfall Primus etc. But I suspect that would take it out of standard entirely. (Which it will be soon anyway.)
nice stuff again. quick note on gifts ungiven
tho while we lack welder and yawgs will it is used sometimes as a double entomb effect in vintage to ensure only 2 cards you want are binned [by selecting only 2].
lion's eye cannot be stifled it will not use stack .why was serendib so low he is a staple in fae stompy?
no he is not running fow.
he has an early list which had fow in sb .last 3 didnt even sleeve up his fows.
http://www.classicquarter.com/decks/deckview.asp?DecklistID=1476
i used to proxy all types of decks in paper with basic lands and a pencil
Solid coverage this week of 2 possibly key archetypes in ZEN limited dude.
I (unfortunately) agree with most of your assessments. (I like arguing ;))
One that I saw and have never drafted and don't think I would, is Windborn Charge. I have yet to see one resolve, but I avoid this type of card mainly because it's sorta conditional.
Hellfire Mongrel: I really do like him in MonoR. He can really make an opponent squirm late game, and yes he can be played around, but that means them not playing cards from their hand, not bad.
Molten Ravager: I have to agree, I don't like seeing this guy on my side of the table. But in his defense, he isn't all that bad. 4 toughness is tough to kill or block profitably. You have classic "threat of activation" stuff going on as well. I mean if we drop him turn 3, and swing next turn, we should have some decent options. If he is blocked, we can decide if we should pump to take out the blocker, if he isn't, well 4 damage is a nice chunk in Red which usually has reach problems. Jury is still out on this guy in MonoR imo.
Bladetusk Boar is awesome. Man giving red relevant sometimes better than flying evasion on a 3 power body feels like it's pushing it a bit. As a result, we have one of the chase creatures for red in the set.
Burst Lightning/Punishing Fire: These feel so underwhelming during play. The threats I want to take out always seem to be 3 toughness. Namely Kor Skyfisher and Vampire Nighthawk. Obv they are still good, but the don't feel as good as Lightning Bolt and Resounding Thunder did.
Spire Barrage was massively good in monoR. Just sick good.
Unstable Footing: I wonder if the fact that it's an instant matters much.
Zektar Shrine: Nice thing about that is that you don't need to actually play it on T2 anyway. You can just drop it on 3, then drop a land and be at the same point you would have been anyway, but with a Geopede online and attacking for 3 with first strike. Seems pretty sweet.
Great stuff as always dude, looking forward to doing the next podcast!
-Marshall