See, I disagree with your assessment of the matchup vs. MBC. I believe that with your inherent card advantage, you can simply play more threats than they have removal...as far as crypt rats, you simply make that a must-kill, and don't set yourself up to be 3-1'd when they top deck it. Corrupt off the top IS an issue, but I still think with all aspects considered, this has to be in Madness's favor. In regards to slivers, I originally had NO idea why he was running the Agony Warps...until I played the deck...that card is so good early game. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree....until we get more of a sample size, I don't think it is possible to get a good answer on whether madness is a real option, or not.
While Madness can negate the discard aspect of MBC, it has a hard time dealing with both the sweepers, removal, and endgame of Corrupt. While Slivers is probably a fair matchup, I can see Madness taking a long time to set up, and wouldn't put it at any better than 50/50 pre-board. For what it is worth, there were two other people running the Madness list and neither did very well in the event (but this is the problem with being results oriented).
Do I think UB Madness has potential? Absolutely, but I also feel that the deck was enhanced by the pilot.
So I am dying to know exactly what matchups the madness deck has problems with. I DO understand that the burn deck(who's best finish was what, 22nd if you give it some leeway) can be a problem, but outside of that...it beats MBC(eventually their discard is negated, and you can deal with every one of their threats) it beats slivers(just too much removal for them to really handle)...I mean, I can defend that deck against any matchup except for burn, which seems to be fading in the face of the MBC deck that burn can NOT beat.
Nice writeup, Alex. Excellent way to utilize the massive decklist information. I was surprised you made it all the way to my 20th place White Weenie deck. Woo!
WW seems amazingly underplayed. I've played nearly 200 rated matches now and have only faced it once.
You can't actually respond to the counters being put on because it's an additional cost to play the spell. The shaman would die once it hits the stack, but that's not to say you couldn't cast it on some frogmite that's going to get blown away anyway.
A note on the andrewtiu's Affinity deck. He's a friend of mine and have tested with his deck dozen times.
Krark-Clan Shaman is the key card here in winning most of his match, maybe it would have been better if he went with 4. There were matches which he lost cause the Shaman was at the bottom part of his library. His main reason in putting Scarscale Ritual is for the card draw which is badly needed in his deck because of the inconsistency issue with Affinity decks.
I've seen a couple of decks already with Conflux and something that realy struck me out was a new Loam / Terravore like. I'll leave here the list as part of the article since I didnt talk about the Knight of the Reliquiary and Maybe I should've.
I don't think Celestial Purge will shine in Extented, at least yet. Not many decks play white and it surely isn't a reason for a splash. AIR is a bad deck and there are so many other solution for it. Other cards that it deals with there are other, probably more versatile solutions.
I guess I'm the signalling guy today. You mentioned way up at the top that when thoughts are close in a pick that you consider the signals. Passing that many Esper while taking the Gargoyle is a wierd signal. It worked out, when your kathari came back, but it might not have, and might have left you at a table with 2 or 3 other serious esper players, and you a first pick Gargoyle. Then again, skeletonize is 5 mana for a lightening bolt and a thrull. Ugh, I guess I would have still done the same. Simirarily, the branching bolt edges the bant charm because of the other good Bant cards and the lack of good jund cards.
Sometimes everyone in a draft has a weak deck, and playing skills wins the day. Sometimes everyone in a draft has a bomb deck, in which case building skills wins the day. Sometimes you are one of the only people in the draft to have a bomb deck. That's when you are one of two people dedicated to a shard, and everyone else is fighting over sub par filler. That comes from signalling and reading signals. Signalling is so good, it's almost cheating. Yet, sadly, I still don't know if I'm spelling it correctly. M-W.com here I come.
I like your article. You have a fresh perspective.
Signalling is important. (Is there only one "l" in signaling?) The prob with the fleshbag is that you are passing the Esper bomb and red removal. The problem with the Tower Gargoyle, is that you are passing the fleshbag AND the knight. The problem with magma spray signalling is ... what? The fleshbag is removal, and is going to be taken. But whoever is to your left is getting no red cards at all. I probably would've taken magma spray, although only through weeping at the tower gargoyle.
I've had the knight captain hit and be really annoying, especially if they have things like Akrasan Squire. They'd probably be able to draft one or two of those in Shards-Shards-Shards, no? Necrogenesis is an underrated card, but it's really early to take that and commit to that many creatures dying. If you are going to marry a shard, then Esper is the way to go.
Vel first pick spike really shouldn't be underrated, it's insane with pingers or with Jund's tokens and at least OK in a deck with fliers or exalted, so seeing it so early makes possible to draft a deck around it, while preserving your color options open and been guaranted a playable card for your final deck.
Immortal Coil + Puca's Mischief is a fairly well known combo that I read about it right when the Alara spoiler came out. I made a note that I should make a deck with this someday, and Trix2009 was the result.
I just reread this article now, and it doesn't seem to me at all as if I'm trying to pass this combo off as some innovative new technology that no one had ever thought of before. If this is how you read it, then it was certainly not my intention.
Just to be perfectly clear: I am not trying to claim credit for anything in ANY of my articles. I am not interested in ownership of any deck, combo, or idea. I do lots of thinking about fun decks to make, but ideas come from everywhere and tons of people have them - often the same ones. I couldn't care less about sorting out ownership of these things, I'm just writing about something that I love.
If you're looking for the first person to come up with a combo, then you should spend your time scouring internet forums. If you enjoy the full package of the articles that I write (somewhat unique deck, card evaluations, game reports, evolutions, budget options, etc) then you should tune in for my articles. It's pretty simple.
I personally would have probably taken the Gargoyle in the first pack. It is by far the most powerful card in the pack, so I think it's worth the risk. I would not really consider the Marauders. I probably like it more than most, and even though it can sometimes be really awesome, it's situational. Knight Captain is also really good, but not something I would take here. There is nothing wrong with 4 power for 5 mana, and it is excellent in racing situations. I don't really understand all the hate for Salvage Titan though. It's not really something I would want to take 2nd, and it's worse than Dragger, but it's still very solid. Craw Wurm is fine, especially in black, and it's not at all unrealistic to use the remove 3 artifacts ability to bring him back.
Unless you're playing against some 8 obelisk bomb deck, edict zombie is not a bomb. Anyone care to explain why necrogenesis is not the pick if you want to go jund? And if you want to keep options open, what the hell is wrong with magma spray? Great removal, great tempo, and you can't ask for a better signal.
Knight captain is card advantage in a box. At the very least, the ability turns a couple of chump blockers into Super Chumps. Maybe the fog ability is situational, but 3 creatures for 1 card is absolutely not. At the very least, having one open keeps them from playing combat tricks. This takes the potential 2 for 1 out of double blocking if they have removal or a resounding-something-rather.
the salvage titan was definitely the wrong pick and overlooking metallurgeon is certainly a mistake
taking the gargoyle (or any good multicolor card) is a calculated risk. If the cards come you'll have a great deck but otherwise you need to abandon your first pick or splash one of the colors. Committing to esper is quite dangerous in general and I think you should've read the signals and switched quickly. That said, the gargoyle p1p1 is not bad.
the knight is a fine card, it really helps you stabilize or win a long game. If both players have enough creatures to kill the other, you can prevent an all-in attack since you can both survive and counterattack. I'd take it over the marauder in a vacuum but white is very weak while black is quite strong in this set.
Knight is less situational than Edictman. He is a 4/4 for five that can fog twice (or more) and wins games. Edictman is merely a decent piece of removal that is nice if you have lots of unearth... which is more a point for unearth than for him.
Elvish Visionary is also much worse than knight captain of eos. You would rather have a 1/1 cantrip than a 5 mana get 3 creatures guy? You said you would take the "elf" over knight captain. We assumed you meant cylian elf as elf is actually in the name of the card.
Also using the word bomb and deathgreeter/shadowfeed in the same sentence is pushing it. Both cards are pretty much unplayable, deathgreeter maybe as a 23rd whereas knight captain will go into any deck that plays white.
See, I disagree with your assessment of the matchup vs. MBC. I believe that with your inherent card advantage, you can simply play more threats than they have removal...as far as crypt rats, you simply make that a must-kill, and don't set yourself up to be 3-1'd when they top deck it. Corrupt off the top IS an issue, but I still think with all aspects considered, this has to be in Madness's favor. In regards to slivers, I originally had NO idea why he was running the Agony Warps...until I played the deck...that card is so good early game. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree....until we get more of a sample size, I don't think it is possible to get a good answer on whether madness is a real option, or not.
When I first read martyr of sands I thought that this was some serious ninja action.
Personally, I think more people need to play monored martyr of sands decks.
While Madness can negate the discard aspect of MBC, it has a hard time dealing with both the sweepers, removal, and endgame of Corrupt. While Slivers is probably a fair matchup, I can see Madness taking a long time to set up, and wouldn't put it at any better than 50/50 pre-board. For what it is worth, there were two other people running the Madness list and neither did very well in the event (but this is the problem with being results oriented).
Do I think UB Madness has potential? Absolutely, but I also feel that the deck was enhanced by the pilot.
-Alex
So I am dying to know exactly what matchups the madness deck has problems with. I DO understand that the burn deck(who's best finish was what, 22nd if you give it some leeway) can be a problem, but outside of that...it beats MBC(eventually their discard is negated, and you can deal with every one of their threats) it beats slivers(just too much removal for them to really handle)...I mean, I can defend that deck against any matchup except for burn, which seems to be fading in the face of the MBC deck that burn can NOT beat.
Nice writeup, Alex. Excellent way to utilize the massive decklist information. I was surprised you made it all the way to my 20th place White Weenie deck. Woo!
WW seems amazingly underplayed. I've played nearly 200 rated matches now and have only faced it once.
Yes you are right, the -1/-1 is part of the casting cost. Scarscale is usually targeted at the Arcbound, Myr or Frogmite
You can't actually respond to the counters being put on because it's an additional cost to play the spell. The shaman would die once it hits the stack, but that's not to say you couldn't cast it on some frogmite that's going to get blown away anyway.
Yeah, you're right. Wizards has a typo in the deck they published and I propagated it.
Shouldn't that be Martyr of Ashes Maindeck??
Great coverage Alex! I like it.
A note on the andrewtiu's Affinity deck. He's a friend of mine and have tested with his deck dozen times.
Krark-Clan Shaman is the key card here in winning most of his match, maybe it would have been better if he went with 4. There were matches which he lost cause the Shaman was at the bottom part of his library. His main reason in putting Scarscale Ritual is for the card draw which is badly needed in his deck because of the inconsistency issue with Affinity decks.
My reason is this: If you can support Esper in subsequent picks, great. If you have to abandon that pick, at least you are cutting a strong creature.
I love how these articles generate so much discussion. By keeping your mind open, you can learn immensely.
Hope to see you soon in the next daily event.
With the abundance of non-basic lands in 100C Singleton, would Wilderness Elemental fit in your deck?
When Conflux comes online, Goblin Outlander might be a consideration if Protection from White becomes needed.
I've seen a couple of decks already with Conflux and something that realy struck me out was a new Loam / Terravore like. I'll leave here the list as part of the article since I didnt talk about the Knight of the Reliquiary and Maybe I should've.
creature [12]
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
instant [6]
3 Darkblast
3 Path to Exile
sorcery [13]
2 Crime / Punishment
4 Life from the Loam
3 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
1 Worm Harvest
artifact [3]
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Umezawa's Jitte
land [26]
3 Barren Moor
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mutavault
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
3 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Windswept Heath
60 cards
Sideboard:
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Loxodon Hierarch
2 Extirpate
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
3 Seal of Primordium
2 Pithing Needle
15 cards
Here is the link: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23196
Check it out.
I don't think Celestial Purge will shine in Extented, at least yet. Not many decks play white and it surely isn't a reason for a splash. AIR is a bad deck and there are so many other solution for it. Other cards that it deals with there are other, probably more versatile solutions.
I guess I'm the signalling guy today. You mentioned way up at the top that when thoughts are close in a pick that you consider the signals. Passing that many Esper while taking the Gargoyle is a wierd signal. It worked out, when your kathari came back, but it might not have, and might have left you at a table with 2 or 3 other serious esper players, and you a first pick Gargoyle. Then again, skeletonize is 5 mana for a lightening bolt and a thrull. Ugh, I guess I would have still done the same. Simirarily, the branching bolt edges the bant charm because of the other good Bant cards and the lack of good jund cards.
Sometimes everyone in a draft has a weak deck, and playing skills wins the day. Sometimes everyone in a draft has a bomb deck, in which case building skills wins the day. Sometimes you are one of the only people in the draft to have a bomb deck. That's when you are one of two people dedicated to a shard, and everyone else is fighting over sub par filler. That comes from signalling and reading signals. Signalling is so good, it's almost cheating. Yet, sadly, I still don't know if I'm spelling it correctly. M-W.com here I come.
I like your article. You have a fresh perspective.
Signalling is important. (Is there only one "l" in signaling?) The prob with the fleshbag is that you are passing the Esper bomb and red removal. The problem with the Tower Gargoyle, is that you are passing the fleshbag AND the knight. The problem with magma spray signalling is ... what? The fleshbag is removal, and is going to be taken. But whoever is to your left is getting no red cards at all. I probably would've taken magma spray, although only through weeping at the tower gargoyle.
I've had the knight captain hit and be really annoying, especially if they have things like Akrasan Squire. They'd probably be able to draft one or two of those in Shards-Shards-Shards, no? Necrogenesis is an underrated card, but it's really early to take that and commit to that many creatures dying. If you are going to marry a shard, then Esper is the way to go.
Vel first pick spike really shouldn't be underrated, it's insane with pingers or with Jund's tokens and at least OK in a deck with fliers or exalted, so seeing it so early makes possible to draft a deck around it, while preserving your color options open and been guaranted a playable card for your final deck.
Immortal Coil + Puca's Mischief is a fairly well known combo that I read about it right when the Alara spoiler came out. I made a note that I should make a deck with this someday, and Trix2009 was the result.
I just reread this article now, and it doesn't seem to me at all as if I'm trying to pass this combo off as some innovative new technology that no one had ever thought of before. If this is how you read it, then it was certainly not my intention.
Just to be perfectly clear: I am not trying to claim credit for anything in ANY of my articles. I am not interested in ownership of any deck, combo, or idea. I do lots of thinking about fun decks to make, but ideas come from everywhere and tons of people have them - often the same ones. I couldn't care less about sorting out ownership of these things, I'm just writing about something that I love.
If you're looking for the first person to come up with a combo, then you should spend your time scouring internet forums. If you enjoy the full package of the articles that I write (somewhat unique deck, card evaluations, game reports, evolutions, budget options, etc) then you should tune in for my articles. It's pretty simple.
I personally would have probably taken the Gargoyle in the first pack. It is by far the most powerful card in the pack, so I think it's worth the risk. I would not really consider the Marauders. I probably like it more than most, and even though it can sometimes be really awesome, it's situational. Knight Captain is also really good, but not something I would take here. There is nothing wrong with 4 power for 5 mana, and it is excellent in racing situations. I don't really understand all the hate for Salvage Titan though. It's not really something I would want to take 2nd, and it's worse than Dragger, but it's still very solid. Craw Wurm is fine, especially in black, and it's not at all unrealistic to use the remove 3 artifacts ability to bring him back.
Unless you're playing against some 8 obelisk bomb deck, edict zombie is not a bomb. Anyone care to explain why necrogenesis is not the pick if you want to go jund? And if you want to keep options open, what the hell is wrong with magma spray? Great removal, great tempo, and you can't ask for a better signal.
Knight captain is card advantage in a box. At the very least, the ability turns a couple of chump blockers into Super Chumps. Maybe the fog ability is situational, but 3 creatures for 1 card is absolutely not. At the very least, having one open keeps them from playing combat tricks. This takes the potential 2 for 1 out of double blocking if they have removal or a resounding-something-rather.
just my .02,
NTufnel
the salvage titan was definitely the wrong pick and overlooking metallurgeon is certainly a mistake
taking the gargoyle (or any good multicolor card) is a calculated risk. If the cards come you'll have a great deck but otherwise you need to abandon your first pick or splash one of the colors. Committing to esper is quite dangerous in general and I think you should've read the signals and switched quickly. That said, the gargoyle p1p1 is not bad.
the knight is a fine card, it really helps you stabilize or win a long game. If both players have enough creatures to kill the other, you can prevent an all-in attack since you can both survive and counterattack. I'd take it over the marauder in a vacuum but white is very weak while black is quite strong in this set.
Knight is less situational than Edictman. He is a 4/4 for five that can fog twice (or more) and wins games. Edictman is merely a decent piece of removal that is nice if you have lots of unearth... which is more a point for unearth than for him.
I used both cards as a way to say that every card can be good in a determinated moment or play situation
The Captain IMO is a situational card.
Elvish Visionary is also much worse than knight captain of eos. You would rather have a 1/1 cantrip than a 5 mana get 3 creatures guy? You said you would take the "elf" over knight captain. We assumed you meant cylian elf as elf is actually in the name of the card.
Also using the word bomb and deathgreeter/shadowfeed in the same sentence is pushing it. Both cards are pretty much unplayable, deathgreeter maybe as a 23rd whereas knight captain will go into any deck that plays white.