Thanks for the responses so far.
I definitely should have at least talked about the spike in the second pack, since it is a card that I should have at least recognized will be valued very differently from one player to the next. Here's what I think:
I don't think spike is anywhere close in power to other 1st pick worthy equipment. It's extremely mana intensive for an underwhelming effect. It's true that it can turn any creature into a threat that the opponent may need to block. The problem is that once they do block, spike does nothing to help them survive the fight (no toughness boost). You end up just trading. So you are often spending 3 mana to equip every turn to force the opponent to trade creatures. (Compared to sigil, they probably need to spend multiple cards to kill your first guy, only to have you move it to the next guy for 0 mana.) This is only a good scenario if your creatures are completely outclassed by your opponent's, otherwise you will end up falling way behind on the board due to your mana commitment, especially if they bounce or kill the guy you are equipping once or twice. I'd be happy to play it in a deck with a lot of tokens or weenies, especially if I didn't have a solid alternative late game plan. But most of the time, I don't think the card would even make my deck.
I still think that commiting so soon to a Shard is a mistake (although a common one). But that wasn't the real mistake in my oppinion. Even though if picking Tower is risky, the real mistake was to start picking cards around it instead of staying open to switchs and watching signals (like in P1P2 picking Salvage Titan over the tri-land, Dragger, Capsule or even the Grixis Charm if wanting to pick the best card in the pack).
And yes, Tower Gargoyle is a 4/4 Flyer for 4, but I would take the overall power of Red over White any day. Everyone knows that Grixis is the way to go nowadays :P
Now I love love love your other articles, but please don't act as if this is your own idea. This idea has been discussed, adapted and cropped up multiple times on the forums, and much better built due to much more testing.
Your other ideas are creative and have used your own experience and knowledge to make decks which I commend, but this one is just plain stolen.
Put me in the tower gargoyle > marauder camp.
In that pack, IMO, It is gargoyle > marauder > spray > necrogenesis > knight captain.
I'm not sure why this is the pick that is getting all of the attention however. The 2nd pick (salvage titan) is the clear mistake. As Mella said already, salvage titan is basically a craw wurm that can be naturalized. He is a card you do NOT want to run if you are esper. I am taking either dragger or capsule out of this pack.
Leaving the necropolis in the board is also a clear mistake. You would play salt marsh 100% of the time, right?
Given the Tower Gargoyle, you did roughly as well as could be expected. Black was open and blue may have been, but red and white were not, so while we can dream about alternate pick schemes that would set us up for Caldera Hellion, in reality the cards couldn't have got us there unless we were willing to ignore blue and white from pick one. I do think the pick five Esper Panorama was premature; even that early I think you knew white would be a splash, and playing one fewer splash card (replaced by Cloudheath Drake) and one less Panorama would be almost a wash in terms of your mana base. I also groaned a little at Salvage Titan, who is *not* pick 2 material (and who played no role in any of your games if I'm reading your walkthroughs right).
In response to the couple of comments left so far:
I don't agree with taking Spike over the Tri-land. I think it's close, of course. Spike of course can win games, but it is generally a big tempo loss. Even when you get it out it doesn't always affect the board. In fact I'm not even a fan of playing this card unless I have some of the couple of creatures that can really abuse it. (Sigil goes in every single deck you draft. No exceptions. So based on that alone, I don't think Spike is anywhere near Sigil in power.)
There's a better chance that the tri-land makes my deck in the end. It's basically an auto-include in any Bant, Naya, Esper, 4- and 5-color deck.
To the author:
Thanks for the article. I look forward to reading more.
I noticed that the shardland from your second pack example provided the same mana as the panorama in that same pack. Carefully avoiding color preference issues? ;)
Also, you mention you draft in the 8-4's. The 'meta' there is quite different from the 4322's or the swiss. In either of the latter 2 esper is very underdrafted; that is one consideration I utilize when drafting.
Lastly, I believe that you dismiss the soul's fire out of turn in your final example. It goes to the dome. I have won (and, occasionally, lost) due to that effect. I rate it more highly than the splinters or the 'nize by a reasonable margin (pack one, anyway). But big gargs is the correct pick anyway.
Keep writing!
At this moment only Bitterloaam uses it consistenly besides a few fae builds. Its a very good target in standard I just dont see it as a threat in extended to justify the inclusion of an anti card even if it can be good vs other stuff.
I have to agree with he comment above; Spike functions as pseudo removal that can be played in practically every deck. It turns any creature into a threat that you must either block or risk losing half your life.
While perhaps not as strong, Spike's power level is at least close to Sigil, which is arguably one of the biggest bombs to open in a draft.
If you can pair Spike with an evasive threat then the game should be over in very short order.
And at the very least it can stall your opponent, or put them in the unenviable position of forcing them to trade their best creature for your worst.
Im not sugesting anything. Besides , the first person to talk about "whos good and whos not" was the other guy claiming I dont know how to draft and such. I've played the captain and the only thing it does is giving you more 2 turns. Even Deathgreeder or Shadowfeend can be bombs in disting situations that doesnt make them good cards. The Captain is an above average card but I would never consider it for that first pick and As I said I dont know why the rant keeps coming since draft is a matter of opinion and Unless someone much far better than we are comes and says something we just keepbashing each other. I dont see being very helpful.
I don't understand. You don't like captain, not even a bit? That is just a completely ludacris thing to say and obviously requires further explanation beyond "I've played all the cards and I'm really good."
- 3 bodies, 2/2, 1/1, 1/1, 5 mana (this is already alone a strong card)
- extremely relevant ability to sacrifice soldiers (of which you have at least 2) for fog. Don't forget there are other soldiers in the set, including squire.
This card is solid in any deck it would be played in, and is a flat out bomb in the right deck/matchup. It is almost impossible to lose a race if he hits play.
You are condescendingly criticizing other peoples opinions, suggesting that everyone else cannot be very good if they don't agree. That sort of makes it awkward when you then defend yourself by saying "it was IMO".
Where the hell did u read that I would take the Cylian? I was talking about the Visionary. I would also like to know how good you both are to be rambling about this. And also I would like you to notice that IMO means In My Opinion because a Draft is just that, a matter of opinion and choice. Having played with almost every card of Shards of Alara in limited I can say that I dont like the captain even a bit and that white besides naya is just bad and I would always take the Marauder or Spray in that booster since I dont like to comit to a Shard so early on and because like every person that knows how to draft knows, power a side a draft is a matter of flexibility.
On your second expample pack, which by the way was booster you dont want to open, you chose tri land.
There was however also Quietus Spike which could be very usefull in lot of the decks. Combining it with evasion creatures creates very strong combo which you have to find answer fast. I know that in lot of the cases you never use it, but I still think it would make stronger first pick than manafixing.
as far as i remember, cruel edict was never better than air elemental. now analyze the pick. you have a cheaper air elemental and a more expensive cruel edict. pay attention. the card isn't bad, but it's not first pick worthy unless its a pack or two in and you have a few rocksliders or drakes. i mean if you get cut off esper so what? you wasted 1 pick. its not the end of the world. you can't just give up the power of a 4/4 flyer out of fear that the guy to your right opened an esper card and is going to force it all while not giving you one good card and ruining your draft. that just doesn't happen often enough to worry.
on top of it all, when you say you would take cylian elf over knight captain of eos, you make me embarrassed for replying. you clearly have no knowledge of shards draft or this game in general.
stick to writing articles, not being a bad critic. i would rather read this dude's articles over yours all day.
5 mana for 2 potential fog effects and 3 creatures for 5 mana. Dont forget that you get a bunch of creatures.
I agree tower gargoyle and magma spray and necrogensis are better than knight captain of eos. You say you would take cylian elf over knight captain of eos? Thats just plain wrong.
Mellamopobrede already said my main thoughts on the actual draft itself so instead I'm going to comment on this Fleshbag Marauders nonsense.
Seriously this guy is nothing but cruel edict unless you have either heavy unearth or the jund guys to get +2/+2 out of the deal. Frankly he's never worth a first pick and certainly not when at least 4 strictly better cards are in the pack.
Tower Gargoyle: is the most powerful and most committed pick. Its not wrong to take it here as if you get esper it was well worth it.
Necrogenesis: I'm not seeing anyone talking about this card in the pack but its a strictly better card then marauder. I'm positive this card has won more games for people on its own then any other card in the pack. If it hits the board it can let you win a otherwise hopeless game. Thing is it only fits in jund without a splash so its likely not something worth first picking but if pick 2 or 3 its between this and raiders I'll always take Necrogenesis at least the first time.
Magma Spray: First off its red. Second its the only red card in the pack. It sends the best signal and possible here the only issue is the Gargoyle is really so much stronger I can easily see passing it over.
Knight Captain of Eos: This guy isn't just a couple fog effects for 5 mana. He's 3 creatures as well and that can make a huge difference. I think he's third in line in this pack behind Magma Spray and Tower Gargoyle though.
Cruel edict is simply crap in most draft formats. If he was a instant you would have a argument as is your saying you should commit to Jund by picking him here. In Jund Necrogenesis is MUCH better. In Grixis I would rather have the removal I know will kill what its aimed at over the one I hope will kill what I need gone. In Esper the Gargoyle is infinitely superior. In other words no matter the pack with this pick I never see grabbing the marauders.
I actually like it too but Having discussed it with some portuguese pros it came to my attention that in ext it wont do much besides being a nice weapon vs AiR and Sulfuric Vortex. Bur still path to exile will be better.
This will remove 5 of the 10 Planeswalkers from the game at instant speed for 1W, a real bargain. It also gets rid or most of the big nasties in Conflux...
I dont think that marauders exists for killing a lonely battlegrace. And second, 5 mana for 2 fog effects IS SO GREAT IN LIMITED. picking the knight leaves u open for 3 shards again and it fits in 2. First picking it over marauder its not better, its worst.I would pick Tower gargoyle or magma spray over the knight . I would pick Necrogenesis or the Elf above it.
3 creatures with 2 fog effects for 5 mana or 3 mana for crappy cruel edict? Everyone thinks that they will get to play the marauder when their opponent only has like a battlegrace angel out. It simply does not work like that. Yes marauder is good in jund and decent in grixis, but you have to have the support for it (gharial and drake mostly). It looks really silly when your opponent plays like a t2 fodder, visionary, cylian elf, dredgescape. I mean you are making them sac their worst creature for 3 mana. Thats why taking it first pick is actually very committal. Unlike the marauder, the knight leaves you open. You know what you are getting for your 5 mana, whereas the fleshbag is more situational.
Thanks for the responses so far.
I definitely should have at least talked about the spike in the second pack, since it is a card that I should have at least recognized will be valued very differently from one player to the next. Here's what I think:
I don't think spike is anywhere close in power to other 1st pick worthy equipment. It's extremely mana intensive for an underwhelming effect. It's true that it can turn any creature into a threat that the opponent may need to block. The problem is that once they do block, spike does nothing to help them survive the fight (no toughness boost). You end up just trading. So you are often spending 3 mana to equip every turn to force the opponent to trade creatures. (Compared to sigil, they probably need to spend multiple cards to kill your first guy, only to have you move it to the next guy for 0 mana.) This is only a good scenario if your creatures are completely outclassed by your opponent's, otherwise you will end up falling way behind on the board due to your mana commitment, especially if they bounce or kill the guy you are equipping once or twice. I'd be happy to play it in a deck with a lot of tokens or weenies, especially if I didn't have a solid alternative late game plan. But most of the time, I don't think the card would even make my deck.
I still think that commiting so soon to a Shard is a mistake (although a common one). But that wasn't the real mistake in my oppinion. Even though if picking Tower is risky, the real mistake was to start picking cards around it instead of staying open to switchs and watching signals (like in P1P2 picking Salvage Titan over the tri-land, Dragger, Capsule or even the Grixis Charm if wanting to pick the best card in the pack).
And yes, Tower Gargoyle is a 4/4 Flyer for 4, but I would take the overall power of Red over White any day. Everyone knows that Grixis is the way to go nowadays :P
Now I love love love your other articles, but please don't act as if this is your own idea. This idea has been discussed, adapted and cropped up multiple times on the forums, and much better built due to much more testing.
Your other ideas are creative and have used your own experience and knowledge to make decks which I commend, but this one is just plain stolen.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1128348
Put me in the tower gargoyle > marauder camp.
In that pack, IMO, It is gargoyle > marauder > spray > necrogenesis > knight captain.
I'm not sure why this is the pick that is getting all of the attention however. The 2nd pick (salvage titan) is the clear mistake. As Mella said already, salvage titan is basically a craw wurm that can be naturalized. He is a card you do NOT want to run if you are esper. I am taking either dragger or capsule out of this pack.
Leaving the necropolis in the board is also a clear mistake. You would play salt marsh 100% of the time, right?
jvs
Given the Tower Gargoyle, you did roughly as well as could be expected. Black was open and blue may have been, but red and white were not, so while we can dream about alternate pick schemes that would set us up for Caldera Hellion, in reality the cards couldn't have got us there unless we were willing to ignore blue and white from pick one. I do think the pick five Esper Panorama was premature; even that early I think you knew white would be a splash, and playing one fewer splash card (replaced by Cloudheath Drake) and one less Panorama would be almost a wash in terms of your mana base. I also groaned a little at Salvage Titan, who is *not* pick 2 material (and who played no role in any of your games if I'm reading your walkthroughs right).
Great article keep it coming ,also whats your mtgo seald rating ?
In response to the couple of comments left so far:
I don't agree with taking Spike over the Tri-land. I think it's close, of course. Spike of course can win games, but it is generally a big tempo loss. Even when you get it out it doesn't always affect the board. In fact I'm not even a fan of playing this card unless I have some of the couple of creatures that can really abuse it. (Sigil goes in every single deck you draft. No exceptions. So based on that alone, I don't think Spike is anywhere near Sigil in power.)
There's a better chance that the tri-land makes my deck in the end. It's basically an auto-include in any Bant, Naya, Esper, 4- and 5-color deck.
To the author:
Thanks for the article. I look forward to reading more.
I noticed that the shardland from your second pack example provided the same mana as the panorama in that same pack. Carefully avoiding color preference issues? ;)
Also, you mention you draft in the 8-4's. The 'meta' there is quite different from the 4322's or the swiss. In either of the latter 2 esper is very underdrafted; that is one consideration I utilize when drafting.
Lastly, I believe that you dismiss the soul's fire out of turn in your final example. It goes to the dome. I have won (and, occasionally, lost) due to that effect. I rate it more highly than the splinters or the 'nize by a reasonable margin (pack one, anyway). But big gargs is the correct pick anyway.
Keep writing!
At this moment only Bitterloaam uses it consistenly besides a few fae builds. Its a very good target in standard I just dont see it as a threat in extended to justify the inclusion of an anti card even if it can be good vs other stuff.
I have to agree with he comment above; Spike functions as pseudo removal that can be played in practically every deck. It turns any creature into a threat that you must either block or risk losing half your life.
While perhaps not as strong, Spike's power level is at least close to Sigil, which is arguably one of the biggest bombs to open in a draft.
If you can pair Spike with an evasive threat then the game should be over in very short order.
And at the very least it can stall your opponent, or put them in the unenviable position of forcing them to trade their best creature for your worst.
What about bitterblossom as a target?
Im not sugesting anything. Besides , the first person to talk about "whos good and whos not" was the other guy claiming I dont know how to draft and such. I've played the captain and the only thing it does is giving you more 2 turns. Even Deathgreeder or Shadowfeend can be bombs in disting situations that doesnt make them good cards. The Captain is an above average card but I would never consider it for that first pick and As I said I dont know why the rant keeps coming since draft is a matter of opinion and Unless someone much far better than we are comes and says something we just keepbashing each other. I dont see being very helpful.
I don't understand. You don't like captain, not even a bit? That is just a completely ludacris thing to say and obviously requires further explanation beyond "I've played all the cards and I'm really good."
- 3 bodies, 2/2, 1/1, 1/1, 5 mana (this is already alone a strong card)
- extremely relevant ability to sacrifice soldiers (of which you have at least 2) for fog. Don't forget there are other soldiers in the set, including squire.
This card is solid in any deck it would be played in, and is a flat out bomb in the right deck/matchup. It is almost impossible to lose a race if he hits play.
You are condescendingly criticizing other peoples opinions, suggesting that everyone else cannot be very good if they don't agree. That sort of makes it awkward when you then defend yourself by saying "it was IMO".
Ty all for your support. o/
Where the hell did u read that I would take the Cylian? I was talking about the Visionary. I would also like to know how good you both are to be rambling about this. And also I would like you to notice that IMO means In My Opinion because a Draft is just that, a matter of opinion and choice. Having played with almost every card of Shards of Alara in limited I can say that I dont like the captain even a bit and that white besides naya is just bad and I would always take the Marauder or Spray in that booster since I dont like to comit to a Shard so early on and because like every person that knows how to draft knows, power a side a draft is a matter of flexibility.
i honestly would have taken magma spray p1p1
On your second expample pack, which by the way was booster you dont want to open, you chose tri land.
There was however also Quietus Spike which could be very usefull in lot of the decks. Combining it with evasion creatures creates very strong combo which you have to find answer fast. I know that in lot of the cases you never use it, but I still think it would make stronger first pick than manafixing.
as far as i remember, cruel edict was never better than air elemental. now analyze the pick. you have a cheaper air elemental and a more expensive cruel edict. pay attention. the card isn't bad, but it's not first pick worthy unless its a pack or two in and you have a few rocksliders or drakes. i mean if you get cut off esper so what? you wasted 1 pick. its not the end of the world. you can't just give up the power of a 4/4 flyer out of fear that the guy to your right opened an esper card and is going to force it all while not giving you one good card and ruining your draft. that just doesn't happen often enough to worry.
on top of it all, when you say you would take cylian elf over knight captain of eos, you make me embarrassed for replying. you clearly have no knowledge of shards draft or this game in general.
stick to writing articles, not being a bad critic. i would rather read this dude's articles over yours all day.
5 mana for 2 potential fog effects and 3 creatures for 5 mana. Dont forget that you get a bunch of creatures.
I agree tower gargoyle and magma spray and necrogensis are better than knight captain of eos. You say you would take cylian elf over knight captain of eos? Thats just plain wrong.
Mellamopobrede already said my main thoughts on the actual draft itself so instead I'm going to comment on this Fleshbag Marauders nonsense.
Seriously this guy is nothing but cruel edict unless you have either heavy unearth or the jund guys to get +2/+2 out of the deal. Frankly he's never worth a first pick and certainly not when at least 4 strictly better cards are in the pack.
Tower Gargoyle: is the most powerful and most committed pick. Its not wrong to take it here as if you get esper it was well worth it.
Necrogenesis: I'm not seeing anyone talking about this card in the pack but its a strictly better card then marauder. I'm positive this card has won more games for people on its own then any other card in the pack. If it hits the board it can let you win a otherwise hopeless game. Thing is it only fits in jund without a splash so its likely not something worth first picking but if pick 2 or 3 its between this and raiders I'll always take Necrogenesis at least the first time.
Magma Spray: First off its red. Second its the only red card in the pack. It sends the best signal and possible here the only issue is the Gargoyle is really so much stronger I can easily see passing it over.
Knight Captain of Eos: This guy isn't just a couple fog effects for 5 mana. He's 3 creatures as well and that can make a huge difference. I think he's third in line in this pack behind Magma Spray and Tower Gargoyle though.
Cruel edict is simply crap in most draft formats. If he was a instant you would have a argument as is your saying you should commit to Jund by picking him here. In Jund Necrogenesis is MUCH better. In Grixis I would rather have the removal I know will kill what its aimed at over the one I hope will kill what I need gone. In Esper the Gargoyle is infinitely superior. In other words no matter the pack with this pick I never see grabbing the marauders.
I actually like it too but Having discussed it with some portuguese pros it came to my attention that in ext it wont do much besides being a nice weapon vs AiR and Sulfuric Vortex. Bur still path to exile will be better.
This will remove 5 of the 10 Planeswalkers from the game at instant speed for 1W, a real bargain. It also gets rid or most of the big nasties in Conflux...
Good article.
I dont think that marauders exists for killing a lonely battlegrace. And second, 5 mana for 2 fog effects IS SO GREAT IN LIMITED. picking the knight leaves u open for 3 shards again and it fits in 2. First picking it over marauder its not better, its worst.I would pick Tower gargoyle or magma spray over the knight . I would pick Necrogenesis or the Elf above it.
3 creatures with 2 fog effects for 5 mana or 3 mana for crappy cruel edict? Everyone thinks that they will get to play the marauder when their opponent only has like a battlegrace angel out. It simply does not work like that. Yes marauder is good in jund and decent in grixis, but you have to have the support for it (gharial and drake mostly). It looks really silly when your opponent plays like a t2 fodder, visionary, cylian elf, dredgescape. I mean you are making them sac their worst creature for 3 mana. Thats why taking it first pick is actually very committal. Unlike the marauder, the knight leaves you open. You know what you are getting for your 5 mana, whereas the fleshbag is more situational.
Whats wrong with you people? How can fleshbag marauder be inferior to the Knight?