The mention of Lush Growth is to satisfy the requirements of having a plains, a forest and a mountain. Fertile Ground, Wild Growth and Llanowar Elves won't satisfy the requirement and make Wild Nacatl 3/3 on turn 2.
realm razer dies to 1 mountain and a shock, or 2 swamps and a terror, or one plains and a condemn, or one island and an unsummon... it's hardly locking someone out of the game. i'd consider realm razer to be one of the most casual cards available. it's almost unplayable in tournaments
Just to be clear, I don't advocate quitting after a few turns just because you're getting spanked (personally I never, ever do this). I think that I have something to learn from every matchup (tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, rogue, junk, strangely good, etc.) and I'm always looking for new lessons. Lots of other people get something completely different out of the game.
I don't think the real issue is "getting spanked", but rather "playing against a deck that turns Magic into something that you hate". Even if I'm getting destroyed, then I still usually get a lot out of the game. How is this guy beating me? How can I update my deck to better fight this strategy? Why did I miss this line of attack in the first place?
A lot of people play Magic Online to put together casual Elf decks and run them into casual Goblin decks. The real way to make sure that you get an opponent on the same wavelength as you is to use the comment field, but hopefully moving forward MTGO will add some more features for game selection/filtering. But right now, for better or for worse, people just click "new game" and play whoever they get matched up with.
I've seen people in the chat area of the casual room boasting about how they get concessions while playing a deck with 25 lands, 35 counterspells/bounce, and 0 win conditions. If you're playing a game with your RG Goblin pile before bed and just want to sling some spells, then I can understand not wanting to waste your time with this donkey. Instead of spending a miserable hour so that some ill-adjusted person can waste your time, then go ahead and concede.
Most cases of 'proactive concession' aren't nearly as clear as the example I described above, but there are plenty of other ways for this same situation to come up. The fact that there's constant discussion about what qualifies as casual is the perfect evidence of this. Wizards is never going to end the casual discussion, so they basically have three choices: leave things the way they are, be more clear about what is actually casual (maybe even creating more formats for the casual-room only? There's obviously baggage here.), or give players better tools toadvertise what type of game they are personally looking for.
Thanks for the feedback - I'll do my best to fight the pull of "terribly stupid"!
Great article. Anytime you can get this much discussion going, you've either done something terribly stupid or slightly brilliant. One thing I don't agree with is this conceding when you are getting spanked early on. If you are just going to lose in two or three turns, stick it out. It won't take that long, and if everyone did that, it would make the community happier as a whole. Why? Because when you are on the better end of the situation, you can get enjoyment of playing out your deck. Also, on the losing end, you could witness a cool combo or pick up a trick you may not have seen before that you can try later on yourself. Just a few thoughts I thought some people may be able to relate to.
I generally don't post about bugs in this article anymore. Mostly because they tend to exist and get squished in the time between articles, and this medium isn't very dynamic (as opposed to the forums which live and breathe with these types of chagnes).
I used to try to keep up with all the bugs in this article but I wasn't able to give it the amount of focus it should have so I gave it up to the rest of the community to do a much better job with it than I could do.
Oh man do I agree with the casual comment. I find playing land destruction fun. But I don't dare to try it because I don't want to be seen as the corpse squatting griefer in your average MMO. I also find tron or green big mana and big bombs fun. I haven't seen anyone drop when I cast Scapeshift for a bunch of Cloudposts yet, fortunately.
... so of course I also like the Nayageddon strategy. :) I hope you actually build the Manaplasm deck someday. I think this is my shard.
@ the previous poster: Lush Growth is horrible. Wild Growth can pay for itself on the same turn by placing it on an untapped Forest and then tapping it. Fertile Ground takes an extra turn to pay for itself, but it gives you any color. Llanwar Elves have summoning sickness, but introduce the usefulness and vulnerabilities of having your effect tied to a 1/1 body, Lush Growth is the worst of both. Unless you have a lot of domain cards you might as well just throw some equipment or an aura on the Wild Nactal if that's all you're using Lush Growth for.
Oh man do I agree with the casual comment. I find playing land destruction fun. But I don't dare to try it because I don't want to be seen as the corpse squatting griefer in your average MMO. I also find tron or green big mana and big bombs fun. I haven't seen anyone drop when I cast Scapeshift for a bunch of Cloudposts yet, fortunately.
... so of course I also like the Nayageddon strategy. :)
@ the previous poster: Lush Growth is horrible. Wild Growth can pay for itself on the same turn by placing it on an untapped Forest and then tapping it. Fertile Ground takes an extra turn to pay for itself, but it gives you any color. Llanwar Elves have summoning sickness, but introduce the usefulness and vulnerabilities of having your effect tied to a 1/1 body, Lush Growth is the worst of both. Unless you have a lot of domain cards you might as well just throw some equipment or an aura on the Wild Nactal if that's all you're using Lush Growth for.
I liked the article, but you failed to mention the effect of Lush Growth on the three cards that look for a forest, a mountain and/or a plain. With a single land, you can meet that requirement...
One problem is that § is the generally-accepted generic currency symbol, and thus would be better suited as a ticket symbol than to indicate selling. How about š for selling?
For the most part I agree with you. The tough problem that we have here is that one person's misery is another person's fun. There are plenty of people out there who love to play control-on-control. There are people who love to play burn, and people who love to play junk rares. Some people will only play Vintage, some Pauper. There are a billion different types of fun for a Magic player to have.
The 'casual room' on MTGO currently needs to cater to all of these different players. This is the reason why I'm all for people playing whatever they want, and just using the comment field in their game to make sure that they sit down next to an opponent looking for the same thing. There's no penalty to quitting in the casual room, so if you're matched up with a deck and you're not having fun - then just move onto the next opponent.
I think that 'casual' is a poor label for MTGO to use, when the only other real option is 'tournament practice'. Whenever I take a non metagame deck into the Tournament Practce room, I get dropped games all over the place from people who just want to test against stock Faeries/Elves/whatever. I can totally understand this. After all, I'm not practicing for a tournament, I just want to play a few games.
Hopefully in the future, MTGO will give the players more and more power to specify which type of game they are looking for - and be matched up with likeminded players. I think that is the real solution to this problem.
I just wanted to comment on the casual environment and applying decks such as these to 'casual'. Personally, I don't care what someone brings to casual as long as the point of playing is for everyone to have fun. What I don't like is when they show up with decks that were obviously tuned to play tourney style, and that means the decks are built lean, mean, and simply set up locks or scenarios where the opponent doesn't get to play. Casual should be a friendly game, and with only you playing and your opponent not given a chance to play sounds unfriendly and thusly, un-casual to me. IMHO, that is closer to tourney style play.
So, quite obviously, looking at the decks they are streamlined to do just that. Allow you to play and never allow your opponent to play their game easily. Since the entire article started with an old school tourney deck as its premise, then wouldn't it also follow that by trying to mimic said deck you were also attempting to create something tourney capable?
Well, that is just my 2 mana on the matter. However, I for one don't really care about LD or counters or tourney decks, I just play when I play casual and let the chips fall where they may. After all, even a dissatisifying casual game is easily forgotten by just moving on to another game, since there are usually never a lack of opponents to play there.
Me? I played a little of the 4 mans b4 shards and probably won't be starting again until I get obtain more shards cards and make sure the deck I play is at a satisfactory state. I spend most of my online time tuning decks in the casual room and use most of my resources to expand my collection. I don't play using my tarmotog handle so u might very well just bump into me and not know it. ;p
It doesn't seem to crash whole drafts or drop people anymore (that I know of) but if you play it there's a good chance that the match will end and both players get a lose on their record. It's impacted hundreds of games, even since the "fix". I'm sure people are making fun of it elsewhere.
I have A Question what if you forgot your awnser for you Question can Wizards help you with that.
The mention of Lush Growth is to satisfy the requirements of having a plains, a forest and a mountain. Fertile Ground, Wild Growth and Llanowar Elves won't satisfy the requirement and make Wild Nacatl 3/3 on turn 2.
realm razer dies to 1 mountain and a shock, or 2 swamps and a terror, or one plains and a condemn, or one island and an unsummon... it's hardly locking someone out of the game. i'd consider realm razer to be one of the most casual cards available. it's almost unplayable in tournaments
Just to be clear, I don't advocate quitting after a few turns just because you're getting spanked (personally I never, ever do this). I think that I have something to learn from every matchup (tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, rogue, junk, strangely good, etc.) and I'm always looking for new lessons. Lots of other people get something completely different out of the game.
I don't think the real issue is "getting spanked", but rather "playing against a deck that turns Magic into something that you hate". Even if I'm getting destroyed, then I still usually get a lot out of the game. How is this guy beating me? How can I update my deck to better fight this strategy? Why did I miss this line of attack in the first place?
A lot of people play Magic Online to put together casual Elf decks and run them into casual Goblin decks. The real way to make sure that you get an opponent on the same wavelength as you is to use the comment field, but hopefully moving forward MTGO will add some more features for game selection/filtering. But right now, for better or for worse, people just click "new game" and play whoever they get matched up with.
I've seen people in the chat area of the casual room boasting about how they get concessions while playing a deck with 25 lands, 35 counterspells/bounce, and 0 win conditions. If you're playing a game with your RG Goblin pile before bed and just want to sling some spells, then I can understand not wanting to waste your time with this donkey. Instead of spending a miserable hour so that some ill-adjusted person can waste your time, then go ahead and concede.
Most cases of 'proactive concession' aren't nearly as clear as the example I described above, but there are plenty of other ways for this same situation to come up. The fact that there's constant discussion about what qualifies as casual is the perfect evidence of this. Wizards is never going to end the casual discussion, so they basically have three choices: leave things the way they are, be more clear about what is actually casual (maybe even creating more formats for the casual-room only? There's obviously baggage here.), or give players better tools toadvertise what type of game they are personally looking for.
Thanks for the feedback - I'll do my best to fight the pull of "terribly stupid"!
I bought my 4x copies of Glimpse of Nature for a Null Profussion deck about a year ago. I sold them last night for 7 tix each. WoooT!
Great article. Anytime you can get this much discussion going, you've either done something terribly stupid or slightly brilliant. One thing I don't agree with is this conceding when you are getting spanked early on. If you are just going to lose in two or three turns, stick it out. It won't take that long, and if everyone did that, it would make the community happier as a whole. Why? Because when you are on the better end of the situation, you can get enjoyment of playing out your deck. Also, on the losing end, you could witness a cool combo or pick up a trick you may not have seen before that you can try later on yourself. Just a few thoughts I thought some people may be able to relate to.
there is Daze and Gush in this box set.
Nice! That's quite a deck (on www.magicthegathering.com's site now).
I've always liked Glimpse, so I'm glad to see it getting some love now. :)
And it still seems to be causing problems. :(
I generally don't post about bugs in this article anymore. Mostly because they tend to exist and get squished in the time between articles, and this medium isn't very dynamic (as opposed to the forums which live and breathe with these types of chagnes).
I used to try to keep up with all the bugs in this article but I wasn't able to give it the amount of focus it should have so I gave it up to the rest of the community to do a much better job with it than I could do.
I've updated the image that I think was causing this issue, hopefully that will fix that.
I wish - if I was Charlie from Lost then not only would I have been to Middle Earth, but I'd also be engaged to Evangeline Lily.
Oh man do I agree with the casual comment. I find playing land destruction fun. But I don't dare to try it because I don't want to be seen as the corpse squatting griefer in your average MMO. I also find tron or green big mana and big bombs fun. I haven't seen anyone drop when I cast Scapeshift for a bunch of Cloudposts yet, fortunately.
... so of course I also like the Nayageddon strategy. :) I hope you actually build the Manaplasm deck someday. I think this is my shard.
@ the previous poster: Lush Growth is horrible. Wild Growth can pay for itself on the same turn by placing it on an untapped Forest and then tapping it. Fertile Ground takes an extra turn to pay for itself, but it gives you any color. Llanwar Elves have summoning sickness, but introduce the usefulness and vulnerabilities of having your effect tied to a 1/1 body, Lush Growth is the worst of both. Unless you have a lot of domain cards you might as well just throw some equipment or an aura on the Wild Nactal if that's all you're using Lush Growth for.
Oh man do I agree with the casual comment. I find playing land destruction fun. But I don't dare to try it because I don't want to be seen as the corpse squatting griefer in your average MMO. I also find tron or green big mana and big bombs fun. I haven't seen anyone drop when I cast Scapeshift for a bunch of Cloudposts yet, fortunately.
... so of course I also like the Nayageddon strategy. :)
@ the previous poster: Lush Growth is horrible. Wild Growth can pay for itself on the same turn by placing it on an untapped Forest and then tapping it. Fertile Ground takes an extra turn to pay for itself, but it gives you any color. Llanwar Elves have summoning sickness, but introduce the usefulness and vulnerabilities of having your effect tied to a 1/1 body, Lush Growth is the worst of both. Unless you have a lot of domain cards you might as well just throw some equipment or an aura on the Wild Nactal if that's all you're using Lush Growth for.
I liked the article, but you failed to mention the effect of Lush Growth on the three cards that look for a forest, a mountain and/or a plain. With a single land, you can meet that requirement...
One problem is that § is the generally-accepted generic currency symbol, and thus would be better suited as a ticket symbol than to indicate selling. How about š for selling?
Are you Charlie from Lost?
For the most part I agree with you. The tough problem that we have here is that one person's misery is another person's fun. There are plenty of people out there who love to play control-on-control. There are people who love to play burn, and people who love to play junk rares. Some people will only play Vintage, some Pauper. There are a billion different types of fun for a Magic player to have.
The 'casual room' on MTGO currently needs to cater to all of these different players. This is the reason why I'm all for people playing whatever they want, and just using the comment field in their game to make sure that they sit down next to an opponent looking for the same thing. There's no penalty to quitting in the casual room, so if you're matched up with a deck and you're not having fun - then just move onto the next opponent.
I think that 'casual' is a poor label for MTGO to use, when the only other real option is 'tournament practice'. Whenever I take a non metagame deck into the Tournament Practce room, I get dropped games all over the place from people who just want to test against stock Faeries/Elves/whatever. I can totally understand this. After all, I'm not practicing for a tournament, I just want to play a few games.
Hopefully in the future, MTGO will give the players more and more power to specify which type of game they are looking for - and be matched up with likeminded players. I think that is the real solution to this problem.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great articles by the way.
I just wanted to comment on the casual environment and applying decks such as these to 'casual'. Personally, I don't care what someone brings to casual as long as the point of playing is for everyone to have fun. What I don't like is when they show up with decks that were obviously tuned to play tourney style, and that means the decks are built lean, mean, and simply set up locks or scenarios where the opponent doesn't get to play. Casual should be a friendly game, and with only you playing and your opponent not given a chance to play sounds unfriendly and thusly, un-casual to me. IMHO, that is closer to tourney style play.
So, quite obviously, looking at the decks they are streamlined to do just that. Allow you to play and never allow your opponent to play their game easily. Since the entire article started with an old school tourney deck as its premise, then wouldn't it also follow that by trying to mimic said deck you were also attempting to create something tourney capable?
Well, that is just my 2 mana on the matter. However, I for one don't really care about LD or counters or tourney decks, I just play when I play casual and let the chips fall where they may. After all, even a dissatisifying casual game is easily forgotten by just moving on to another game, since there are usually never a lack of opponents to play there.
Me? I played a little of the 4 mans b4 shards and probably won't be starting again until I get obtain more shards cards and make sure the deck I play is at a satisfactory state. I spend most of my online time tuning decks in the casual room and use most of my resources to expand my collection. I don't play using my tarmotog handle so u might very well just bump into me and not know it. ;p
It doesn't seem to crash whole drafts or drop people anymore (that I know of) but if you play it there's a good chance that the match will end and both players get a lose on their record. It's impacted hundreds of games, even since the "fix". I'm sure people are making fun of it elsewhere.
How come I never see you in the Sanctioned room? I'm there all the time.
The formatting of this article for me is just really screwed up.
after todays pro-tour start, Glimpse of Nature is now a $5 card
And it's been fixed using a hot patch so it's no longer an issue. :)
you started playing mtgo? which what account?