I'd say for the next couple of years, Classic 'maintenance' will be as high or higher than keeping up with Standard. That's due to MEDx and Classic Sets and some cards from Standard sets. Although, based on what's been previewed (and spoiled) so far from from Lorwyn, there's very little that will be must have's for the decks in Classic. I actually hope that there isn't much in Lorwyn for Classic, as it will make it a bit easier for those interested in Classic if they have a Standard set or two that doesn't require much cost.
You're right. Yours is indeed more of a control deck. (Control the board, big finisher), but as you mentioned, it often plays like an aggro control deck, beefy early creature, backed up by disruption. The lines between Aggro/Control and Control that runs an aggro type finisher (like, oh, tog...) are kind of blurry, or they can feel blurry when you get tog'd on turn 5. :)
Just wanted to say, for the record, at this point, Classic is actually far more expensive than Standard. The reason is because classic doesn't have the entire cardpool of say vintage and classic, not only is there an upfront cost, but is a slow cost for all the cards you need as they come out, For example when Weatherlight comes out, you'll need to accquire some other cards, as well as more cards that are classic playable in lorywn. If you consider all that, and the fact nobody drafts the sets classic players want, this means that the prices for cards that classic players seek to accquire are so great, it becomes a bit hard to play.
Glad to see a break down. Though I must say I resent my deck with 7 creatures being called Aggro-Control. I mean add the power and toughness of all the decks creatures and you get a 11/10. Now granted three of those can swing for 15+ on turn 5 or 6, but I'm still going with it as a control deck :)
As far as staples go: Sensei's Diving Top, Lightning Helix, Nimble Mongoose, Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor, Counterspell, and Mishra's Factory should have made list imo (and yeah I know it wasn't meant to be exhaustive but those are some popular/key cards.).
I liked the article.. the format is more diverse then it first seems.. I would argue though that the Ravnica Duals aren't necessary for mono x decks, but the Fetchlands are obviously worth putting 4 in a mono deck, its like "pay 1 life, you're maximum deck size is reduced by one put an untapped land into play"
Yeah. If I would have written this 3 months ago, it would have been easy to break down the meta. Right now though, it's extremely hard. We have Flash getting nerfed, we have a RDW deck posting up great numbers, UWB Fish getting crazy cards and a U/x Dreadnought beat down. And those are just a few of them.
I really can't wait to see what shakes out of all these changes. Should be fun!
For some reason I had an adblock filter for 'lor' which well, seemed to include price of g-lor-y... not sure how it's there but I'm happy that I'm witty again!
Good survey of the colors so far. I don't understand why Word of Undoing made the list (why would you want to bounce a creature you've Fettered?). In blue, I think Telekinesis is more notable, as it is damage prevention in blue, and it taps down a creature for two turns (all at instant speed). I also think Holy Light should deserve mention only because it's an instant-speed board-wide effect, which is something Pauper doesn't have much of.
My biggest disagreement comes from the lack of credit given to Oubliette. It should not be compared to Terror. In Pauper, Oubliette is in a small group of cards that can get rid of ANY creature, regardless of color or regeneration. The other cards: Faceless Butcher, Terminate, and now Fissure. I suppose Gaze of Justice counts, but its non-mana cost is a bit prohibitive. Faceless Butcher became less useful when Last Gasp and then Incinerate came online. Terminate is good, but you need to be playing a combination of colors that is likely one of the least popular. Fissure's playability is yet to be seen. While it's good, it's also expensive, and in a color that already has good, versatile removal.
Anyway, back to Oubliette. This card has versatility that other black removal doesn't have. Since it's an enchantment, black and red simply have no answer for it. Blue can counter it, but beyond that, the only playable answer is Boomerang, which doesn't really see much play. Obviously, green and white have enchantment removal, but it's likely in the sideboard. Personally, I think Oubliette is great maindeck removal. While it needs backup in the sideboard to deal with green and white, I think the power to remove any creature more than makes up for that.
I like the article.. I like hunted dragon though, hasty flyers are always worth a second look.. I like the firemanes too but usually only when they hang out in the graveyard..
I don't think many of the commons will be hard to come by, usually commons are always the cheapest unless there is a huge migration out of MTGO the commons won't be too hard to come by. Mortifys are almost essential, versitle cards are always valued high.
"Both of the later two ere very powerful when they first appeared, even if they are not as potent today." Shadowmage Infiltrator saw pretty much no play until it was reprinted in Time Spiral. A 1/2 with alot of teeth kept him out of standard and extended decks.
Other cards: Nightmare Void, Unless rotation slows extended down a ton there is no way Nightmare Void is being played. Heck even if a four mana discard spell is viable why not just run Cranial Extraction?
Boros Swiftblade, the Domain decks that are his forte are leaving extended in a year. No saclands means the decks wont work.
Moonlight Bargain: "I can see playing cards like this in controlling Psychatog builds." Fact or Fiction is clearly superior and not rotating until Tog also leaves Extended. Not to mention that this would be better in aggro Tog builds as control decks don't like to loose a ton of life. (And aggro decks don't like five mana spells so I guess it is homeless).
Over all thought it was a good list and well done.
P.S. Ghost Council is worth speculative investment for sure, think there is 70-80% chance it will be played after ext rotation and maybe before.
Moonlight Bargain is a reach - but it is an instant. I've been around long enough to remember EOTFOFUL (end of turn Foact or Fiction you lose) - any instant speed card drawer that digs five cards deep has potential. Too bad it costs 3BB, not 2B. Nightmare Void - yeah, that's a stretch. One for Burning Wish, maybe.
I used to include prices, but they change. If the price at MTGOTraders goes down, including prices makes them llok to expensive. If prices go up, people are disappointed. I should have put more links into the article - I'll make sure I get those in next time.
I was actual about to do an article like this until JXClaytor told me it was being done by you. I would have done it differently, including more cards that would be good to get before extended rotates next year, did you know Meloku is only 1 tik? Yeah... Anywho that leads me to the one of the things I didn't like. I would have liked to see prices with the cards, maybe help attract business to our great friend MTGO Trader. Other than that, I see some of the cards being fairly far fetched such as Moonlight Bargain and Nightmare Void, but that also means no cards get left behind. So great job, can't wait for the next one.
I think I could have written the competitive part better. I'm a long time tournament player, and by playing in real life, I have been and had to deal with a lot of jerks, which to me makes the competitive environment. However, I have not dealt with that in any PDC events at all. I think that is what I was trying to convey.
I'm not going to beat around the bush, I was really streching to find playable black cards, Erg Raiders seemed to be one of the few guys that could be played in lieu of the newer better commons.
Good article but needs some length.
I'd say for the next couple of years, Classic 'maintenance' will be as high or higher than keeping up with Standard. That's due to MEDx and Classic Sets and some cards from Standard sets. Although, based on what's been previewed (and spoiled) so far from from Lorwyn, there's very little that will be must have's for the decks in Classic. I actually hope that there isn't much in Lorwyn for Classic, as it will make it a bit easier for those interested in Classic if they have a Standard set or two that doesn't require much cost.
Here's hoping, anyway.
You're right. Yours is indeed more of a control deck. (Control the board, big finisher), but as you mentioned, it often plays like an aggro control deck, beefy early creature, backed up by disruption. The lines between Aggro/Control and Control that runs an aggro type finisher (like, oh, tog...) are kind of blurry, or they can feel blurry when you get tog'd on turn 5. :)
Just wanted to say, for the record, at this point, Classic is actually far more expensive than Standard. The reason is because classic doesn't have the entire cardpool of say vintage and classic, not only is there an upfront cost, but is a slow cost for all the cards you need as they come out, For example when Weatherlight comes out, you'll need to accquire some other cards, as well as more cards that are classic playable in lorywn. If you consider all that, and the fact nobody drafts the sets classic players want, this means that the prices for cards that classic players seek to accquire are so great, it becomes a bit hard to play.
Glad to see a break down. Though I must say I resent my deck with 7 creatures being called Aggro-Control. I mean add the power and toughness of all the decks creatures and you get a 11/10. Now granted three of those can swing for 15+ on turn 5 or 6, but I'm still going with it as a control deck :)
As far as staples go: Sensei's Diving Top, Lightning Helix, Nimble Mongoose, Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor, Counterspell, and Mishra's Factory should have made list imo (and yeah I know it wasn't meant to be exhaustive but those are some popular/key cards.).
after re-reading it, you did mention the fetch lands in mono decks.. heh sorry for my ignorence
I liked the article.. the format is more diverse then it first seems.. I would argue though that the Ravnica Duals aren't necessary for mono x decks, but the Fetchlands are obviously worth putting 4 in a mono deck, its like "pay 1 life, you're maximum deck size is reduced by one put an untapped land into play"
Yeah. If I would have written this 3 months ago, it would have been easy to break down the meta. Right now though, it's extremely hard. We have Flash getting nerfed, we have a RDW deck posting up great numbers, UWB Fish getting crazy cards and a U/x Dreadnought beat down. And those are just a few of them.
I really can't wait to see what shakes out of all these changes. Should be fun!
It's about time someone did this. I'd have appreciated more attention to specific decks, but there aren't really any yet.
For some reason I had an adblock filter for 'lor' which well, seemed to include price of g-lor-y... not sure how it's there but I'm happy that I'm witty again!
:shifty:
Or something...
I can see it fine.
It's supposed to be "Price of Glory", which is witty and applicable, however, it's just blank wich is not quite as witty...
I don't usually comment but I just wanted to say that I thought it was a good article and spot on.
Always a pleasure to read your stuff.
Good survey of the colors so far. I don't understand why Word of Undoing made the list (why would you want to bounce a creature you've Fettered?). In blue, I think Telekinesis is more notable, as it is damage prevention in blue, and it taps down a creature for two turns (all at instant speed). I also think Holy Light should deserve mention only because it's an instant-speed board-wide effect, which is something Pauper doesn't have much of.
My biggest disagreement comes from the lack of credit given to Oubliette. It should not be compared to Terror. In Pauper, Oubliette is in a small group of cards that can get rid of ANY creature, regardless of color or regeneration. The other cards: Faceless Butcher, Terminate, and now Fissure. I suppose Gaze of Justice counts, but its non-mana cost is a bit prohibitive. Faceless Butcher became less useful when Last Gasp and then Incinerate came online. Terminate is good, but you need to be playing a combination of colors that is likely one of the least popular. Fissure's playability is yet to be seen. While it's good, it's also expensive, and in a color that already has good, versatile removal.
Anyway, back to Oubliette. This card has versatility that other black removal doesn't have. Since it's an enchantment, black and red simply have no answer for it. Blue can counter it, but beyond that, the only playable answer is Boomerang, which doesn't really see much play. Obviously, green and white have enchantment removal, but it's likely in the sideboard. Personally, I think Oubliette is great maindeck removal. While it needs backup in the sideboard to deal with green and white, I think the power to remove any creature more than makes up for that.
I like the article.. I like hunted dragon though, hasty flyers are always worth a second look.. I like the firemanes too but usually only when they hang out in the graveyard..
I don't think many of the commons will be hard to come by, usually commons are always the cheapest unless there is a huge migration out of MTGO the commons won't be too hard to come by. Mortifys are almost essential, versitle cards are always valued high.
I enjoyed the article. thanks.
"Both of the later two ere very powerful when they first appeared, even if they are not as potent today." Shadowmage Infiltrator saw pretty much no play until it was reprinted in Time Spiral. A 1/2 with alot of teeth kept him out of standard and extended decks.
Other cards: Nightmare Void, Unless rotation slows extended down a ton there is no way Nightmare Void is being played. Heck even if a four mana discard spell is viable why not just run Cranial Extraction?
Boros Swiftblade, the Domain decks that are his forte are leaving extended in a year. No saclands means the decks wont work.
Moonlight Bargain: "I can see playing cards like this in controlling Psychatog builds." Fact or Fiction is clearly superior and not rotating until Tog also leaves Extended. Not to mention that this would be better in aggro Tog builds as control decks don't like to loose a ton of life. (And aggro decks don't like five mana spells so I guess it is homeless).
Over all thought it was a good list and well done.
P.S. Ghost Council is worth speculative investment for sure, think there is 70-80% chance it will be played after ext rotation and maybe before.
Pete Jahn FTW
i like the article..
I agree that PDC is more competitive, but its also more casual. I was playing a generic mono blue deck the other day and some guy quit on me..
but thats not the point of the comment. I love the choices it just felt all too short.. can't wait for the next edition of it.
hmm do would one of the best discard spells ever printed see more play than mindstab....
That's a hard question isn't it?
Thanks for the comments.
Moonlight Bargain is a reach - but it is an instant. I've been around long enough to remember EOTFOFUL (end of turn Foact or Fiction you lose) - any instant speed card drawer that digs five cards deep has potential. Too bad it costs 3BB, not 2B. Nightmare Void - yeah, that's a stretch. One for Burning Wish, maybe.
I used to include prices, but they change. If the price at MTGOTraders goes down, including prices makes them llok to expensive. If prices go up, people are disappointed. I should have put more links into the article - I'll make sure I get those in next time.
Oh, yeah - MTGOTraders FTW.
I was actual about to do an article like this until JXClaytor told me it was being done by you. I would have done it differently, including more cards that would be good to get before extended rotates next year, did you know Meloku is only 1 tik? Yeah... Anywho that leads me to the one of the things I didn't like. I would have liked to see prices with the cards, maybe help attract business to our great friend MTGO Trader. Other than that, I see some of the cards being fairly far fetched such as Moonlight Bargain and Nightmare Void, but that also means no cards get left behind. So great job, can't wait for the next one.
Yeah I know I play Mindstab in just about every deck with Black in it. It's fantastic.
Do you think Hymn would see more play than Mindstab had it been printed at common?
I think I could have written the competitive part better. I'm a long time tournament player, and by playing in real life, I have been and had to deal with a lot of jerks, which to me makes the competitive environment. However, I have not dealt with that in any PDC events at all. I think that is what I was trying to convey.
I'm not going to beat around the bush, I was really streching to find playable black cards, Erg Raiders seemed to be one of the few guys that could be played in lieu of the newer better commons.
Must correct myself:
I misread the sentence on arcane denial, a few times in fact.
What you are saying now makes sense although I am not sure I agree, for the reasons I explained.