It's not just you. MTGA shows its clunkiness in the long game. Oh boy does it. I have a Temur Ramp deck that really starts cooking at about 6-8 mana and by then the timeouts have worn thin and everything becomes a dex test to see if I miss click in the rush to get things stacked properly.
I don't know if it is just me but I actually like the gameplay better on MTGO than MTGA. For a new player or a very simple game I agree Arena is faster. But when you have a lot of triggers and targets it starts to get clunky. We have been complaining a lot about MTGO but there are many interface details that are actually very well thought in the program. Arena could use a set of hotkeys (ok maybe it have hotkeys that I don't know yet) and yield. But I think this is probably easy to implement. What I really don't like about it comparing to MTGO is how isolated it feels. MTGO has a connection with the "outside" world, with redeem, trades, websites buying and selling cards. Arena feels like a closed little world, I can't buy or sell cards, grinding only generates "value" inside the game and after I have all the cards I need it starts to feel a bit pointless.
Right now I am enjoying Arena and playing both but I am not sure how am I going to feel about it in a while. Part of the fun of playing Magic to me is to have a goal, in the long term what would be my goal inside Arena? At least ATM I don't see it.
Overall, MTGO is a better model for the players in the long run, but maybe Arena is a better business model for internet gaming, Idk. I hope MTGO survives for at least more 55 years (I plan to stop playing mtg around my 105 birthday).
Most MTGO players with smaller "investments" will never return once they have gotten a taste of Arena. Those with large collections will stick around because they are stuck. Few (if any) new players to MTGO. How can it possibly survive unless WotC puts a lot of effort keeping it on life support? Why would they? Tabletop still works for older formats.
Arena has completely changed how I play Magic on a computer. I only played limited on MTGO (since Prismatic events were discontinued). I started Arena at the beginning of the year, abandoned MTGO, and have been playing mostly constructed ever since. When I get to 5,000 gold I play in a draft. I've spent $200 on Arena (during closed beta) and don't expect to spend another dime (I have lots of WC's). I sold my MTGO collection (playsets of just about everything) for close to $15,000 in October. I'm being offered under $9,000 for the same cards now.
Just wait until they support more than just Windows desktops.
I expect that with Arena that tabletop Magic will still be supported, just not with tournament play as that will eventually be all Arena all the time. Instead, the focus will be on the casual players, which would help explain why retailers such as Walmart and Amazon now sell booster boxes as it increases accessibility to these players.
Sadly, that does mean that the traditional LGS model is in danger, because they not only have to compete with these large retailers, but a lot of their inventory is geared toward the competitive players and their prices are not competitive with online options. The best option for those LGSs is to transition into the cafe business while allowing renting of board games and usage of space for casual players, but that creates its own set of problems.
Commander will be the primary paper format going forward, and Brawl was an attempt to make the format more palatable to both the casual users and to the higher-ups because of the focus on Standard cards and rotation.
Where that leaves MTGO is in an awkward space, because the most profitable formats for Wizards are Standard and Limited, and it makes more sense to support those on Arena. I suspect there will be a plan to phase it out, with no collection compensation whatsoever, but it will take a while. This does mean that Modern's future is in danger, but that is probably of minimal concern to the higher-ups.
I did some testing with UG Madness/Threshold a while ago, it may be time to revisit it with another enabler. With Werebear, Rootwalla, Circular Logic, Wild Mongrel, there are possibilities.
I am starting to wonder how much fun it would to try Foil in a madness deck. We already have Circular Logic, imagine Foil putting Basking Rootwalla in play, good times! Gotta try that someday. ^^
I think this will be a realization that comes over time when more competitive league results filter in. I don't think Ux Delver is the best deck in Pauper, but all of the best cards in the format are definitely the blue ones.
When the person casting Foil also has Hydro for Pyro, and Dispel as well, it mitigates some of the risk. I've played 3 full leagues now with Foil being legal and have only once had it cause mana issues in the long game, and that was midgame in a Game 3 where I kept a shakey 6 and Scry'd to the bottom. Any other time, it's been a release valve to get me out of tight spots.
The numbers on the list I put above are off, though, and I've been working with it before joining league number 4. I'll have it all revised and worked through more thoroughly by the time I submit my next go, but short story is that 3 is too many copies, I think two may be the perfect amount.
I faced Foil in tournament, of course it is a strong card, but I don't think it is format warping strong. There are answers in the metagame like Pyroblast and Dispel that make Foil a bit risky, also casting it early can really hurt the mana base. I think the card is here to stay, but I don't think Gush will be banned or anything like that. What I do have to wonder is why they give even more tools to the already strongest color
Another interesting metric to consider when looking at the overall value of playsets is the bot spread on selling tickets. Right now the larger chains buy tickets for $0.85 per 1 ticket. Hence, the cost of selling out is fairly high at moment. The bot spread on a ticket could also be used to identify situations where prices dropped due to a panic.
Judging by their reactions to the article they seem to be having a hard time. The article might actually have created a shockwave, but prices have mostly rebounded since.
So I looked at the cost of the Singleton event: 300gems (I have 100) or 1500 gold and decided I'd rather open packs. The low end prizes are typical of the 500gp entry and the top 3 places get packs but imho the decks I have to run are more fun than good enough to get to 5+/x.
Oh hum super singleton eh? I might. I have little gold though. I tend to spend it all on packs. hehe. I do have a couple singleton decks and my friend Hogan has been playing it when it comes up with his Knights deck.
It's not just you. MTGA shows its clunkiness in the long game. Oh boy does it. I have a Temur Ramp deck that really starts cooking at about 6-8 mana and by then the timeouts have worn thin and everything becomes a dex test to see if I miss click in the rush to get things stacked properly.
I don't know if it is just me but I actually like the gameplay better on MTGO than MTGA. For a new player or a very simple game I agree Arena is faster. But when you have a lot of triggers and targets it starts to get clunky. We have been complaining a lot about MTGO but there are many interface details that are actually very well thought in the program. Arena could use a set of hotkeys (ok maybe it have hotkeys that I don't know yet) and yield. But I think this is probably easy to implement. What I really don't like about it comparing to MTGO is how isolated it feels. MTGO has a connection with the "outside" world, with redeem, trades, websites buying and selling cards. Arena feels like a closed little world, I can't buy or sell cards, grinding only generates "value" inside the game and after I have all the cards I need it starts to feel a bit pointless.
Right now I am enjoying Arena and playing both but I am not sure how am I going to feel about it in a while. Part of the fun of playing Magic to me is to have a goal, in the long term what would be my goal inside Arena? At least ATM I don't see it.
Overall, MTGO is a better model for the players in the long run, but maybe Arena is a better business model for internet gaming, Idk. I hope MTGO survives for at least more 55 years (I plan to stop playing mtg around my 105 birthday).
Most MTGO players with smaller "investments" will never return once they have gotten a taste of Arena. Those with large collections will stick around because they are stuck. Few (if any) new players to MTGO. How can it possibly survive unless WotC puts a lot of effort keeping it on life support? Why would they? Tabletop still works for older formats.
Arena has completely changed how I play Magic on a computer. I only played limited on MTGO (since Prismatic events were discontinued). I started Arena at the beginning of the year, abandoned MTGO, and have been playing mostly constructed ever since. When I get to 5,000 gold I play in a draft. I've spent $200 on Arena (during closed beta) and don't expect to spend another dime (I have lots of WC's). I sold my MTGO collection (playsets of just about everything) for close to $15,000 in October. I'm being offered under $9,000 for the same cards now.
Just wait until they support more than just Windows desktops.
Sorry to hear of your loss Pete. :/ I think I agree with most of what you've said here. (Though it is a lot to grok.)
I expect that with Arena that tabletop Magic will still be supported, just not with tournament play as that will eventually be all Arena all the time. Instead, the focus will be on the casual players, which would help explain why retailers such as Walmart and Amazon now sell booster boxes as it increases accessibility to these players.
Sadly, that does mean that the traditional LGS model is in danger, because they not only have to compete with these large retailers, but a lot of their inventory is geared toward the competitive players and their prices are not competitive with online options. The best option for those LGSs is to transition into the cafe business while allowing renting of board games and usage of space for casual players, but that creates its own set of problems.
Commander will be the primary paper format going forward, and Brawl was an attempt to make the format more palatable to both the casual users and to the higher-ups because of the focus on Standard cards and rotation.
Where that leaves MTGO is in an awkward space, because the most profitable formats for Wizards are Standard and Limited, and it makes more sense to support those on Arena. I suspect there will be a plan to phase it out, with no collection compensation whatsoever, but it will take a while. This does mean that Modern's future is in danger, but that is probably of minimal concern to the higher-ups.
January 12 for the 2018 Tribal Invitational?
Yes please!
Despite oversleeping, and waking up in a rush, I think I got most of the typos.
At least the spam bots were nice enough to leave me alone for a few days :D
Keep up the great work Pete, and again, sorry for your loss.
And Gush/Foil/Delver wins the Challenge, it feels so very right and proper.
I did some testing with UG Madness/Threshold a while ago, it may be time to revisit it with another enabler. With Werebear, Rootwalla, Circular Logic, Wild Mongrel, there are possibilities.
I am starting to wonder how much fun it would to try Foil in a madness deck. We already have Circular Logic, imagine Foil putting Basking Rootwalla in play, good times! Gotta try that someday. ^^
I think this will be a realization that comes over time when more competitive league results filter in. I don't think Ux Delver is the best deck in Pauper, but all of the best cards in the format are definitely the blue ones.
When the person casting Foil also has Hydro for Pyro, and Dispel as well, it mitigates some of the risk. I've played 3 full leagues now with Foil being legal and have only once had it cause mana issues in the long game, and that was midgame in a Game 3 where I kept a shakey 6 and Scry'd to the bottom. Any other time, it's been a release valve to get me out of tight spots.
The numbers on the list I put above are off, though, and I've been working with it before joining league number 4. I'll have it all revised and worked through more thoroughly by the time I submit my next go, but short story is that 3 is too many copies, I think two may be the perfect amount.
Glad you're still listening! :D Thanks for the affirmation.
Thanks for this podcast on the sound of silence.
This. Yeah Foil is great, as is Fire and Ice...but Blue didn't really need anymore help in Pauper.
I faced Foil in tournament, of course it is a strong card, but I don't think it is format warping strong. There are answers in the metagame like Pyroblast and Dispel that make Foil a bit risky, also casting it early can really hurt the mana base. I think the card is here to stay, but I don't think Gush will be banned or anything like that. What I do have to wonder is why they give even more tools to the already strongest color
Absolutely. However, I don't know where to get historic information on this. The big number was the one thing that I could look up rather easily.
Another interesting metric to consider when looking at the overall value of playsets is the bot spread on selling tickets. Right now the larger chains buy tickets for $0.85 per 1 ticket. Hence, the cost of selling out is fairly high at moment. The bot spread on a ticket could also be used to identify situations where prices dropped due to a panic.
Judging by their reactions to the article they seem to be having a hard time. The article might actually have created a shockwave, but prices have mostly rebounded since.
So I looked at the cost of the Singleton event: 300gems (I have 100) or 1500 gold and decided I'd rather open packs. The low end prizes are typical of the 500gp entry and the top 3 places get packs but imho the decks I have to run are more fun than good enough to get to 5+/x.
Oh hum super singleton eh? I might. I have little gold though. I tend to spend it all on packs. hehe. I do have a couple singleton decks and my friend Hogan has been playing it when it comes up with his Knights deck.
Thanks for this nice podcast as usual.
Paul, are you planning to enter the Super Singleton events on Arena this weekend? ("Singleton Challenge").
Thanks Florian, your article made a lot of sense.
How are the bot owners surviving when they are bearing the brunt of these price drops?
Hey Pete, I wrote an article based on your big number, and why I think it has been going down so much in the last couple of years.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/mtg-arena-is-killing-magic-online/
Thanks for doing this column,
Florian
This is actually spam too.
of all the things I wish I could do, it's being able to ban users.