As a new player since August, my wife bought me the MTGO download as a gift. Since then, I've happily played in the Standard Pauper format. I had no need (or easy resources) to speculate on costs of expensive rare cards. Although I've played MTG IRL off-and-on since 4th Edition, I did not seek to collect every bomb rare; I sought to have fun with casual friends or during FNM. Due to health, my social calendar remains limited, and MTGO is without a doubt, the most frequent way I communicate with more people than my immediate family.
Suddenly, the Standard Pauper gets shut down without reasonable justification. I cannot easily find matches now, even with appending "Standard ***PAUPER***" in the comments section. My record seems to have improved, because too many Standard players just grab an open table without reading, and subsequently concede before my 1st draw.
Yet, I encourage people to play MTGO using the chat channel, #standardpauper. Here, we at least find like-minded opponents to challenge and hone our skills. I'm still learning the metagame, and now have VERY limited opportunity to practice it without the filter.
...but I will soldier on. With a losing record in the Standard Pauper metagame, I have no prayer in the regular standard environment. Even if money were no object, the learning curve seems as steep as the prices. I have great faith in our leadership within the standard pauper community, but it's been neutered in serious ways because of the filter.
I can agree that the comparable costs of any hobby might equal that money invested in virtual or cardboard cards. How much will your hockey pads and new stick cost over the season? How about your new mountain bike? How much did you donate to a nonprofit charity over the last 6 months compared to how much your deck costs? Money as a barrier is moot, but this article and link suggest a serious problem with the format.
A sense of community, despite wins/losses, is why I play MTGO. We have this sense of community in the standard pauper groups. Stand with us; we will weather the hailstorm...
It depends on my kids. I originally got into Magic Online over paper magic because it was hard to get out to the local card shop with little kids around. My kids are getting older and it is easier for me to get a night out to play paper magic again once in a while. I also have a much better job now that doesn't require me to work on Saturdays. My daughter is almost old enough to start playing with me. I'll probably be around more often, but family comes first.
With P9? In what capacity? If you restrict them, then you just have to restrict everything that Vintage restricts, and at that point, it's "just" Vintage Tribal Wars with a specialized tribal ban list (Jitte and whatnot).
If you don't restrict power, that's just insanity.
all three featured decks are within 3.5 tickets of each other. Is this the smallest spread we've had?
Possibly. Is it significant? Well, it may be statistically significant, I guess.
Are you planning a more permanent return, maybe a new winning streak next year to show these kids how it was done back in the days? (One tribal year equals 7 human years, so 2011 is another generation entirely).
I see you've been active on PureMTGO these past few days. Did you take some time away from MTGO in general?
Kiki-Jiki and/or Birthing Pod and/or Splinter Twin: they don't show up in Tribal very much. My rule of thumb is: as long as something doesn't significantly impact the meta week after week, it's all good. (Unfortunately, we can't ban Mountain).
Re: Tsabo's Decree. I won't say it's a bad card (AJ's eagerness to play it should already prove it's not), but is it ban-worthy, within our current pool? I don't know. Casting it on turn 3 would require a pretty serious and consistent ramp. Certainly not Cabal Coffers ramp, that by turn 3 doesn't even have 3 mana, unless Urborg is also involved (in that case, it has 3 mana). Would Cloudpost replace All Is Dust with the added annoyance of requiring black mana? (I probably would do it if Urborg were already there for Sundering Titan's sake).
Tsabo's Decree is essentially Damnation + some degree of discard, but it seems fairly costed, all in all. Your typical black deck would still prefer Damnation rather than risking to end up with a 6-mana spell stuck in hand. On the other hand, a specialized MBC might be able to exploit it, but I say we can allow it. It seems particularly strong versus Goblin, because Goblin decks almost never include off-tribe creatures, and it nullifies the work of Goblin Ringleader. But considering how rampant Goblin decks are, introducing a new natural enemy in the pool might not be a bad idea.
Moat and Tsabo's Decree? Yes, please! I can guarantee I'll give you sufficient data on those two to make an informed decision on their fate.
How about a 'No Holds Barred' event allowing the full vintage card pool sans Jitte (And maybe the cheap black options?) That could get us a good feel for what needs to stay banned.
I had plans for pairing Arboria with Flash tribes and instants before it was pre-emptively banned, could be interesting to see if it would work. Bear in mind it doesn't stop Arboria's controller from attacking...
One last aside, all three featured decks are within 3.5 tickets of each other. Is this the smallest spread we've had?
"Expensive mana bases can really limit the appeal of a format."
Agree. It is not so much the cost that disagree with though, it is the evisceration of the basic land and the colors of magic that concerns me. It is just too easy to play multicolour and thus avoid weaknesses of individual colors.
To get started in constructed, it's going to be more than $50, but if you get started with phantom events like cube drafts, you can play a decent amount of time off of $50 before you need to buy in again.
I used to be against the unbanning of Moat, but now I wouldn't protest it. I mean, I am not even convinced that it is better than Worship.
As far as Abyss is concerned, I am not sure. It seems very strong in the right deck, and it will usually have an impact, even if your opponent is able to remove it (because that will mostly happen on their turn). If I had to choose I would probably leave it banned.
Circle of Solace just seems like a worse Story Circle most of the time, and I agree that Tsabo's Decree is not too powerful for what it costs. If you manage to cast a 6cc spell in Legacy, it should have a very strong impact.
EDIT: on the other thought, I am not sure about Tsabo's Decree. Discard clause is what potentially breaks the card, because it could really leave an opponent crippled after being cast. In a "fair deck" I wouldn't mind it, because it's tough to get to 6 mana, but in some kind of ramp, it could be devastating if cast on turn 3 or 4 for example. And you can't even play around it.
It was nice to play in Tribal Apocalypse again. Although my deck was horribly inconsistant, it was also fun to play some of my favorite new cards, Daretti and Scrap Mastery.
It seems like most of the cards on the banned list are weaker than legal cards, so why keep them banned. I'm kind of surprised that you haven't nixed Kiki Jiki, Birthing Pod, or Splinter Twin yet. It seems like they would be more dangerous than just about anything else out there.
I agree that Stasis and Arboria are just annoying, and keeping them out is probably good for time's sake.
Magic Online has always been one of the most expensive online games in terms of time commitment and money needed to get started.
I don't see many new players trying out magic online unless they 1) Already know how to play Magic. 2) Are willing to spend 3 to 4 hour blocks of time on the game, and 3) Are willing to spend over $50 on the game, and most likely will continue to invest money into the game in the future. It's a testament to how great a game Magic is that Magic Online can continue to find new players that fit these criteria. I don't think cost is a new issue.
I think you misread the sealed leagues information somewhat. The article says both versions should be out *before* mid-2016. It sounds like the league without adding a pack will come out a bit for the full version, but should be before summer. Unless of course this goes the way leagues have historically gone and we won't see them until 2019.
I've run into the BR devoid variants a lot in Just for Fun recently. It is a pretty popular budget deck for sure. The range of ideas is pretty wide too.
"we don't want to use those. They would weaken our Skyshroud War Beast!"
Not true: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon and friends turn things into mountains, but not _basic_ mountains.: You can have your cake and eat it: Turn off their land and still hit them for full value off a Price.
The last Tribal Wars game in the official format has taken place, between my Rhinos and Robin88's Wizards. We were playing when the server went down, Robin with a 1-0 lead, midway through game 2.
The campaign to get Tribal Wars reinstated begins here and now. One day, we will finish that game.
My bad. Full legacy card pool sans jitte.
Pete, you write well and hit major points.
As a new player since August, my wife bought me the MTGO download as a gift. Since then, I've happily played in the Standard Pauper format. I had no need (or easy resources) to speculate on costs of expensive rare cards. Although I've played MTG IRL off-and-on since 4th Edition, I did not seek to collect every bomb rare; I sought to have fun with casual friends or during FNM. Due to health, my social calendar remains limited, and MTGO is without a doubt, the most frequent way I communicate with more people than my immediate family.
Suddenly, the Standard Pauper gets shut down without reasonable justification. I cannot easily find matches now, even with appending "Standard ***PAUPER***" in the comments section. My record seems to have improved, because too many Standard players just grab an open table without reading, and subsequently concede before my 1st draw.
Yet, I encourage people to play MTGO using the chat channel, #standardpauper. Here, we at least find like-minded opponents to challenge and hone our skills. I'm still learning the metagame, and now have VERY limited opportunity to practice it without the filter.
...but I will soldier on. With a losing record in the Standard Pauper metagame, I have no prayer in the regular standard environment. Even if money were no object, the learning curve seems as steep as the prices. I have great faith in our leadership within the standard pauper community, but it's been neutered in serious ways because of the filter.
I can agree that the comparable costs of any hobby might equal that money invested in virtual or cardboard cards. How much will your hockey pads and new stick cost over the season? How about your new mountain bike? How much did you donate to a nonprofit charity over the last 6 months compared to how much your deck costs? Money as a barrier is moot, but this article and link suggest a serious problem with the format.
A sense of community, despite wins/losses, is why I play MTGO. We have this sense of community in the standard pauper groups. Stand with us; we will weather the hailstorm...
It depends on my kids. I originally got into Magic Online over paper magic because it was hard to get out to the local card shop with little kids around. My kids are getting older and it is easier for me to get a night out to play paper magic again once in a while. I also have a much better job now that doesn't require me to work on Saturdays. My daughter is almost old enough to start playing with me. I'll probably be around more often, but family comes first.
the full vintage card pool sans Jitte
With P9? In what capacity? If you restrict them, then you just have to restrict everything that Vintage restricts, and at that point, it's "just" Vintage Tribal Wars with a specialized tribal ban list (Jitte and whatnot).
If you don't restrict power, that's just insanity.
all three featured decks are within 3.5 tickets of each other. Is this the smallest spread we've had?
Possibly. Is it significant? Well, it may be statistically significant, I guess.
Are you planning a more permanent return, maybe a new winning streak next year to show these kids how it was done back in the days? (One tribal year equals 7 human years, so 2011 is another generation entirely).
I see you've been active on PureMTGO these past few days. Did you take some time away from MTGO in general?
Kiki-Jiki and/or Birthing Pod and/or Splinter Twin: they don't show up in Tribal very much. My rule of thumb is: as long as something doesn't significantly impact the meta week after week, it's all good. (Unfortunately, we can't ban Mountain).
Re: Tsabo's Decree. I won't say it's a bad card (AJ's eagerness to play it should already prove it's not), but is it ban-worthy, within our current pool? I don't know. Casting it on turn 3 would require a pretty serious and consistent ramp. Certainly not Cabal Coffers ramp, that by turn 3 doesn't even have 3 mana, unless Urborg is also involved (in that case, it has 3 mana). Would Cloudpost replace All Is Dust with the added annoyance of requiring black mana? (I probably would do it if Urborg were already there for Sundering Titan's sake).
Tsabo's Decree is essentially Damnation + some degree of discard, but it seems fairly costed, all in all. Your typical black deck would still prefer Damnation rather than risking to end up with a 6-mana spell stuck in hand. On the other hand, a specialized MBC might be able to exploit it, but I say we can allow it. It seems particularly strong versus Goblin, because Goblin decks almost never include off-tribe creatures, and it nullifies the work of Goblin Ringleader. But considering how rampant Goblin decks are, introducing a new natural enemy in the pool might not be a bad idea.
Moat and Tsabo's Decree? Yes, please! I can guarantee I'll give you sufficient data on those two to make an informed decision on their fate.
How about a 'No Holds Barred' event allowing the full vintage card pool sans Jitte (And maybe the cheap black options?) That could get us a good feel for what needs to stay banned.
I had plans for pairing Arboria with Flash tribes and instants before it was pre-emptively banned, could be interesting to see if it would work. Bear in mind it doesn't stop Arboria's controller from attacking...
One last aside, all three featured decks are within 3.5 tickets of each other. Is this the smallest spread we've had?
"Expensive mana bases can really limit the appeal of a format."
Agree. It is not so much the cost that disagree with though, it is the evisceration of the basic land and the colors of magic that concerns me. It is just too easy to play multicolour and thus avoid weaknesses of individual colors.
I think we agree, Magic Online is expensive. Especially when compared with Freeman and even console games.
Then it's $50-$100 per month. Not a trivial amount.
To get started in constructed, it's going to be more than $50, but if you get started with phantom events like cube drafts, you can play a decent amount of time off of $50 before you need to buy in again.
$50? More like $500.
What's a Prismatic?
Just kidding, if anyone has their decks saved please message me and we can play
"The_Sensei"
Client speed was notably better after the format bloodbath. The problem is I don't give a shit any more.
I used to be against the unbanning of Moat, but now I wouldn't protest it. I mean, I am not even convinced that it is better than Worship.
As far as Abyss is concerned, I am not sure. It seems very strong in the right deck, and it will usually have an impact, even if your opponent is able to remove it (because that will mostly happen on their turn). If I had to choose I would probably leave it banned.
Circle of Solace just seems like a worse Story Circle most of the time, and I agree that Tsabo's Decree is not too powerful for what it costs. If you manage to cast a 6cc spell in Legacy, it should have a very strong impact.
EDIT: on the other thought, I am not sure about Tsabo's Decree. Discard clause is what potentially breaks the card, because it could really leave an opponent crippled after being cast. In a "fair deck" I wouldn't mind it, because it's tough to get to 6 mana, but in some kind of ramp, it could be devastating if cast on turn 3 or 4 for example. And you can't even play around it.
It was nice to play in Tribal Apocalypse again. Although my deck was horribly inconsistant, it was also fun to play some of my favorite new cards, Daretti and Scrap Mastery.
It seems like most of the cards on the banned list are weaker than legal cards, so why keep them banned. I'm kind of surprised that you haven't nixed Kiki Jiki, Birthing Pod, or Splinter Twin yet. It seems like they would be more dangerous than just about anything else out there.
I agree that Stasis and Arboria are just annoying, and keeping them out is probably good for time's sake.
Magic Online has always been one of the most expensive online games in terms of time commitment and money needed to get started.
I don't see many new players trying out magic online unless they 1) Already know how to play Magic. 2) Are willing to spend 3 to 4 hour blocks of time on the game, and 3) Are willing to spend over $50 on the game, and most likely will continue to invest money into the game in the future. It's a testament to how great a game Magic is that Magic Online can continue to find new players that fit these criteria. I don't think cost is a new issue.
I think you misread the sealed leagues information somewhat. The article says both versions should be out *before* mid-2016. It sounds like the league without adding a pack will come out a bit for the full version, but should be before summer. Unless of course this goes the way leagues have historically gone and we won't see them until 2019.
I've run into the BR devoid variants a lot in Just for Fun recently. It is a pretty popular budget deck for sure. The range of ideas is pretty wide too.
Karakas should likely also be in the last deck...
expertly said Joe, I 100% concur.
Oh, hmm! Good to know, thanks.
Re:Custody Battle. Same fun with Cloudshift and Ghostly Flicker - steal their stuff and "flicker it" and it returns to your side permanently.
"we don't want to use those. They would weaken our Skyshroud War Beast!"
Not true: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon and friends turn things into mountains, but not _basic_ mountains.: You can have your cake and eat it: Turn off their land and still hit them for full value off a Price.
The last Tribal Wars game in the official format has taken place, between my Rhinos and Robin88's Wizards. We were playing when the server went down, Robin with a 1-0 lead, midway through game 2.
The campaign to get Tribal Wars reinstated begins here and now. One day, we will finish that game.