You stopped reading to soon and your point is not relevant for the discussion. Let me draw your attention to the part you skipped:
"Whether Wizards actually looks at the data is another question. They don’t spend time spying on individuals, but they do spend a lot of time looking at the aggregate data and averages."
My suggestion is to start a Facebook group for tribal wars. There is a vintage one and a commander one I frequent and each one has a list of mtgo usernames who love the format and are amenable to practice games.
Part of the reasoning they cited in the Tumblr page was having to maintain a banlist. Total lazy wimps. I'm possibly causally connected to this since I emailed them a week ago about the discrepancies with the client ban lists and the recent legacy (un)bannings. But Kuma, if it helps, tell them we would be fine with a compromise where they keep our format but completely get rid of the ban list, letting tribal players generate our own lists.
Anyways, I sent them an email and posted on twitter.
I definitely would feel screwed, if they don't take back the removals! I don't see how 3-4 hours in an event could compensate for 24/7 availability of a format. Without (new) casual players S100 and tribal will die in the end. LET'S ALL TRY TO PREVENT THIS!
Yeah, my concern about the loss of the filter isn't that it'll damage the tournament, but that it's going to make it a hell of a lot harder to find practice games and it's going to make it much less likely that new players will find the format. It's also not exactly an encouraging direction for the program to go in; "We can't cope, so we're removing a bunch of features" is not a statement that inspires confidence about MTGO's long-term future.
The people who are really getting screwed are those that make use of the multiplayer formats that are being cut, because they literally will not be able to use MTGO to play the game they want anymore.
Do they track bots that arent allowed per the User Agreement and Software License ?
Do they track the most insulting things certain players manage to type in mtgo chats ?
Do they track things that they do not need to ask the end user to look at their isp/connectivity in order to detect/solve ?
"Did you report (with screenshot) ?" is the question that comes up when talking with other players via various forums.
Why report ? Why not just chat with Orcs, they keep track of everything anyway !??!
"Always so close to first place, still not there: Generalissimo and his Myrs."
It's a nice sentiment, but the "always" at the beginning of that sentence is *wildly* inaccurate; I mostly go 2-2 :D. That was the closest I've got so far though, I was only 1 game away from 4-0ing.
WOTC just make it easy to leave the best game in the world - from this perspective an enourmous achievement if an extremely sad one.
Still strange that those ppl get paid for this and not find a nice Place in ...
The story with Blippy needs some support even when leaving mtgo- Tx for pointing out!
I find it unethical if Wizards are executing a control/treatment experiment without informing us that we are participating in such an experiment. That would never be allowed in a proper research study. I feel cheated no matter what their sentiment has been.
... and I also feel angry that they cut down on the casual formats. I had hoped that they someday would do more for casual gaming. It could have been a feeding channel for sanctioned events.
If they still had forums I would use (not something that ended when they shut down the forums, they chased me off years ago with gratuitous layout and format changes), or if I were still playing MTGO a lot (see v4.0), I would join the crowd howling about them shutting down 5-6 player commander and legacy tribal wars. As it is, I don't think they even have "general chat" in the "casual room" (do they even have rooms in 4.0?), or anyplace for people to express the community consensus about what they're doing any more. Which is maybe just as well because they were kinda bad at meeting the community's desires even when they had the opportunities hear them better.
As it is now, since they've chased me into paper magic and Hearthstone and enough free time to try new other games (which is actually good for my day job as a game designer anyway)...
All I feel like doing is shrugging and saying "Hey Wizards, go read my Tearing Down Castles open letter again. ...or don't. I don't expect you to change your stripes at this point. Oh well."
At least they screwed up the display of 6 player commander compared to how well it worked in 3.5, which make limiting it to 4 feel a little more like a "mercy killing". :P But man, 6 player commander (or 6 player extended/modern/classic free for all) was kinda the pinnacle of how much you could enjoy Magic along one certain axis. I guess given that it was one of the least "immediately profitable" moneymaking axes (plural of axis is axes, look it up), I suppose Wizards won't miss it much.
I tell you, though, if you want to curate a gaming experience that will stay popular for decades, or even centuries... You should be keeping those rich spices in there. Even if they're only used in 1 or 2 percent of all meals cooked and eaten. Ya know? Don't forget the experience pyramid and how much thinking about or aspiring to those rare experiences flavors the day to day grind, etc. etc. blah blah blah. Look at Styb's recent column on the mothership about "what was your most memorable Commander experience ever". Hope MTGO players can find "and then I did such-and-such to my 3 opponents" as memorable as "man this really hard to pull off combo finally worked and I did such-and-such to 5 people".
It's a dark time indeed for MTGO. I hope people do start filling their inboxes and twitter feeds with angry pleas for them to reconsider this nonsense.
About the format removal conundrum, well, Lee and Worth probably do look at data, but it seems to me they do so in a very "tunnel vision" kind of way. It's easy to look at Block Constructed, after Lee himself axed half of the events for the format, and think it doesn't fire all that often.
I think their (especially Lee's) obsession with hard data make them overlook a big part of the MTGO experience for a lot of enfranchised players, which is the sheer amount of possibilities to try out. And they won't even engage the community in open conversation about the changes, like Mark Rosewater, for example, does day after day through his social media.
Their actions are too methodical, too number-focused, too objective, and they end up overlooking a lot of the subjective aspects of the game. And that is just another in MTGO's long, long history of misinformed decisions.
Heh, thanks for the compliment. I recall you edging that one 2-1, I messed up by playing a card in a precombat main that devotioned a God, just in time for your Boros Battleshaper to force it to attack, meaning I couldn't block the subsequent lethal swing. Good times.
I play mostly casual, and every format. Whenever I see a 100 singleton, tribal wars or standard pauper I join. I did have some block decks but they need updating.
Standard pauper has such a small pool that building a decent deck is a real challenge. 100 Singleton is superb and I prefer this to commander. Tribal Wars is just a hoot. Only a few days ago I found myself up against a gods tribe, so innovative. The cows won, but it was close :)
Part of the appeal of this game is the flexibility of what you can do with the cards. Shutting this down just takes away the fun. Wotc must know this.
Glad to see someone else taking up the flag here. My article upcoming will also be talking about this (from the tribal wars angle). The more people talking about this the better. (Also welcome back!) I am surprised at the wall of silence and lack of response to the outcry so far. It is worrisome because there is a tendency of the corporation to be enigmatic which leads them to seem draconian and arbitrary to us.
As to the charms of Block, I much prefer playing it with 2-3 sets but in a set with build around me stuff like landfall and allies there is some tension to play with and that has to be fun.
In fact, I was just looking over my collection the other day and found out I have four Ally Encampments from drafting. I immediately though how cool it would be to just throw together an Ally deck and have at it in Block Constructed. A few years ago, that's precisely what I would have done.
You stopped reading to soon and your point is not relevant for the discussion. Let me draw your attention to the part you skipped:
"Whether Wizards actually looks at the data is another question. They don’t spend time spying on individuals, but they do spend a lot of time looking at the aggregate data and averages."
Accepted? It depends on who you ask. Criminal activity is also accepted by some.
My suggestion is to start a Facebook group for tribal wars. There is a vintage one and a commander one I frequent and each one has a list of mtgo usernames who love the format and are amenable to practice games.
Ahah! It's your fault bob, should have know! :/ Grumble grumble. Well fix it now. :p
Part of the reasoning they cited in the Tumblr page was having to maintain a banlist. Total lazy wimps. I'm possibly causally connected to this since I emailed them a week ago about the discrepancies with the client ban lists and the recent legacy (un)bannings. But Kuma, if it helps, tell them we would be fine with a compromise where they keep our format but completely get rid of the ban list, letting tribal players generate our own lists.
Anyways, I sent them an email and posted on twitter.
I definitely would feel screwed, if they don't take back the removals! I don't see how 3-4 hours in an event could compensate for 24/7 availability of a format. Without (new) casual players S100 and tribal will die in the end. LET'S ALL TRY TO PREVENT THIS!
Yeah, my concern about the loss of the filter isn't that it'll damage the tournament, but that it's going to make it a hell of a lot harder to find practice games and it's going to make it much less likely that new players will find the format. It's also not exactly an encouraging direction for the program to go in; "We can't cope, so we're removing a bunch of features" is not a statement that inspires confidence about MTGO's long-term future.
The people who are really getting screwed are those that make use of the multiplayer formats that are being cut, because they literally will not be able to use MTGO to play the game they want anymore.
:That would never be allowed in a proper research study.
And yet it is perfectly common and accepted in a marketing study.
"WotC tracks everything."
Do they track bots that arent allowed per the User Agreement and Software License ?
Do they track the most insulting things certain players manage to type in mtgo chats ?
Do they track things that they do not need to ask the end user to look at their isp/connectivity in order to detect/solve ?
"Did you report (with screenshot) ?" is the question that comes up when talking with other players via various forums.
Why report ? Why not just chat with Orcs, they keep track of everything anyway !??!
"Always so close to first place, still not there: Generalissimo and his Myrs."
It's a nice sentiment, but the "always" at the beginning of that sentence is *wildly* inaccurate; I mostly go 2-2 :D. That was the closest I've got so far though, I was only 1 game away from 4-0ing.
You know where I stand. I'm probably not leaving over this, but I will not stop campaigning for Tribal.
You might even call it Tribal Apocalypse.
WOTC just make it easy to leave the best game in the world - from this perspective an enourmous achievement if an extremely sad one.
Still strange that those ppl get paid for this and not find a nice Place in ...
The story with Blippy needs some support even when leaving mtgo- Tx for pointing out!
I find it unethical if Wizards are executing a control/treatment experiment without informing us that we are participating in such an experiment. That would never be allowed in a proper research study. I feel cheated no matter what their sentiment has been.
... and I also feel angry that they cut down on the casual formats. I had hoped that they someday would do more for casual gaming. It could have been a feeding channel for sanctioned events.
Exactly the right approach. This may be the Apocalypse, but it's not the end of the world.
If they still had forums I would use (not something that ended when they shut down the forums, they chased me off years ago with gratuitous layout and format changes), or if I were still playing MTGO a lot (see v4.0), I would join the crowd howling about them shutting down 5-6 player commander and legacy tribal wars. As it is, I don't think they even have "general chat" in the "casual room" (do they even have rooms in 4.0?), or anyplace for people to express the community consensus about what they're doing any more. Which is maybe just as well because they were kinda bad at meeting the community's desires even when they had the opportunities hear them better.
As it is now, since they've chased me into paper magic and Hearthstone and enough free time to try new other games (which is actually good for my day job as a game designer anyway)...
All I feel like doing is shrugging and saying "Hey Wizards, go read my Tearing Down Castles open letter again. ...or don't. I don't expect you to change your stripes at this point. Oh well."
At least they screwed up the display of 6 player commander compared to how well it worked in 3.5, which make limiting it to 4 feel a little more like a "mercy killing". :P But man, 6 player commander (or 6 player extended/modern/classic free for all) was kinda the pinnacle of how much you could enjoy Magic along one certain axis. I guess given that it was one of the least "immediately profitable" moneymaking axes (plural of axis is axes, look it up), I suppose Wizards won't miss it much.
I tell you, though, if you want to curate a gaming experience that will stay popular for decades, or even centuries... You should be keeping those rich spices in there. Even if they're only used in 1 or 2 percent of all meals cooked and eaten. Ya know? Don't forget the experience pyramid and how much thinking about or aspiring to those rare experiences flavors the day to day grind, etc. etc. blah blah blah. Look at Styb's recent column on the mothership about "what was your most memorable Commander experience ever". Hope MTGO players can find "and then I did such-and-such to my 3 opponents" as memorable as "man this really hard to pull off combo finally worked and I did such-and-such to 5 people".
It's a dark time indeed for MTGO. I hope people do start filling their inboxes and twitter feeds with angry pleas for them to reconsider this nonsense.
Respect for this week's "Thoughts of a Tribal Hots", Kuma - wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment and reasoning.
About the format removal conundrum, well, Lee and Worth probably do look at data, but it seems to me they do so in a very "tunnel vision" kind of way. It's easy to look at Block Constructed, after Lee himself axed half of the events for the format, and think it doesn't fire all that often.
I think their (especially Lee's) obsession with hard data make them overlook a big part of the MTGO experience for a lot of enfranchised players, which is the sheer amount of possibilities to try out. And they won't even engage the community in open conversation about the changes, like Mark Rosewater, for example, does day after day through his social media.
Their actions are too methodical, too number-focused, too objective, and they end up overlooking a lot of the subjective aspects of the game. And that is just another in MTGO's long, long history of misinformed decisions.
Maybe I'll start playing Bribery/Thada Adel/Shimian Specter/Earwig Squad so I can search my opponent's library for the DQ. Just kidding
....
or am I??
Heh, thanks for the compliment. I recall you edging that one 2-1, I messed up by playing a card in a precombat main that devotioned a God, just in time for your Boros Battleshaper to force it to attack, meaning I couldn't block the subsequent lethal swing. Good times.
I play mostly casual, and every format. Whenever I see a 100 singleton, tribal wars or standard pauper I join. I did have some block decks but they need updating.
Standard pauper has such a small pool that building a decent deck is a real challenge. 100 Singleton is superb and I prefer this to commander. Tribal Wars is just a hoot. Only a few days ago I found myself up against a gods tribe, so innovative. The cows won, but it was close :)
Part of the appeal of this game is the flexibility of what you can do with the cards. Shutting this down just takes away the fun. Wotc must know this.
Glad to see someone else taking up the flag here. My article upcoming will also be talking about this (from the tribal wars angle). The more people talking about this the better. (Also welcome back!) I am surprised at the wall of silence and lack of response to the outcry so far. It is worrisome because there is a tendency of the corporation to be enigmatic which leads them to seem draconian and arbitrary to us.
As to the charms of Block, I much prefer playing it with 2-3 sets but in a set with build around me stuff like landfall and allies there is some tension to play with and that has to be fun.
I wholeheartedly agree.
In fact, I was just looking over my collection the other day and found out I have four Ally Encampments from drafting. I immediately though how cool it would be to just throw together an Ally deck and have at it in Block Constructed. A few years ago, that's precisely what I would have done.
I want a Homer Simpson Planeswalker!!!
Reading a deck list with Jace, Wurmcoil, etc, makes me really interested to be honest. That's the kind of thing I could get behind :)