Biggest problem I have is them taking away Swiss and 8-4 WWW drafts. So they basically gave us 4-3-2-2 which everyone knows is the crappiest draft payouts, so prizes in essence were cut there as well. I can see WWW becoming the next Eventide where there is much less cards in circulation elevating secondary market prices. WotC definitely dropped the ball there.
There no season points like they do in PPDC andprizes to this point has been equal to the amount of participants then divided 50% for 1st, 25% for 2nd and 12.5% for 3rd and 4th
It all depends on the total prizes (which I am unable to find <.<) and any secondary effect (season points etc...) that would have to be adjusted accordingly.
I'm sure with that data you could probably find out the optimal number of rounds for any size of tournament.
you are right filegott was definitely competitive but he unfortunately got caught in the vortex of everything that happened. I was more mad at him for always having the answer to my cards when i tried to kill his servants more than anyything else...and thats not really mad just frustrated. He played good matches
Yeah, I wouldn't do 7 rounds of Swiss, that would get to be way too long for some people.
Now that I think about it, I really don't think 5 rounds of swiss are really needed until you hit 16+ players. Unless you want a definitive winner of the tournament rather than a couple of winners. In that case you could just have a playoff round to determine the winner.
The daily events run four rounds and often have multiple 4-0 players without a definitive winner.
I was also one of the people on the Singleton bandwagon. I support either version, total singleton or singleton for just non-creature spells. But as the Painter guy pointed out, there are so many creatures that serve the purpose of other spells, making me run only one copy of a card is not really a hinderance. Especially, if it's a card I can use to win on that turn. Example, fetching Scapeshift while I already have Valakut in play. I'd only need one to kill you.
That is why I was kinda in favor of he creatures only format. I have a few tribal decks that are creature only and they are fairly amazing. Again, that is because so many creatures now can double as spells. Think Trinket Mage or Venser.
So, I played filegott in the casual room a number of times with my Faeries deck (aggro green/blue with only Spellstutter Sprite for control). His deck was not unfair from what I could tell in my games (I went 2-1 against him). Painter's Servant is vulnerable to removal, especially in an environment centered around creatures, so the Grindstone combo is hard to pull off.
Also, every time I played filegott he advertised his game with an indication that he was playing a highly competitive deck. Kudos!
BTW, I run one Gaea's Blessing in my Faerie deck but have no idea how that interacts with Grindstone in MTGO. I think it should install an unending infinite loop in the game. I was hoping to see it happen in my games against filegott, but it never did.
The cost to enter the tournament has also been reduced assuming the resale value of packs doesn't dip too far below 4 tickets.
It used to be 6 packs and 4 tickets, which roughly translates to 28 tickets. It is now 24 tickets.
So, they basically lowered the cost and payout, which effectively flattens the payout. It's slightly worse for players who are very good but also slightly better for weaker players.
old
win % EV (in tickets with 4 tickets per pack value)
33% -19.75472585
50% -9.75
66% 3.204266797
new
win % EV (in tickets with 4 tickets per pack value)
33% -16.64337772
50% -8.25
66% 2.464474204
Note: These calculations don't factor in the resale value of the cards you open in these events
At least it's not like the Exodus release events that paid out in all Exodus packs but required 2 Tempest 2 Stronghold and 2 Exodus to enter.
I understand where you're coming from, but I see issue in all of the suggested options with the exception of swiss, but even then when you have lots of people show all of it lasts longer
I still don't get why so many Grixis decks can't handle RDW. If it packs enough spot control (Terminate, Lightning bolt) g1, and has the right counters to back it up, getting to turn 7 is easy. Maybe that's not enough, I guess. But I never have trouble beating RDW, and when I run RDW I always lose to Grix.
The release payouts are also different and not as profitable. 1st place is 13 Packs and 2nd place is 8 packs. It was 15 and 10. Shame. At least its not as bad as other non-release sealed payouts.
i like the swiss idea more and more with the flat pay out. I think it would discourage spikes, because really it's two tickets...I like it enough to try it this weekend in fact. The only thing is trying to figure out round structure.
8: 3 round of swiss
9-14: 5 rounds of swiss
15+: 7 rounds of swiss
the last one is the only one i am iffy about because then we are approaching PE length, though are games tend to end rather quickly compared to a tournament.
And no filegott, you were actually decent t wasnt you being rude. Though I am thinking of adding grindstone to the banned list...
Keep in mind, none of the above data covers sideboards (That is the next article). Krosan grip is all over the sideboard data. Bolt made showings in 5 different decks, so it's not as if it didn't show up. Maybe I am miss reading what you wrote. You said, "not seeing the blues I know every deck running blue has a 98% chance of starting with 4x Daze, 4x FoW, 4x Brainstorm," The blues were in there, those cards made the top 10.
Thank you for your input. I think this is a fine suggestion.
Ultimately I would like some kind of change implemented by WotC along these lines, however I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program.
I figured that programming a restriction on noncreature cards would not be that difficult. Programming a restriction on cards outside of your tribe might be a bit more difficult because the cards that are restricted vary based on your tribe.
However you're right, it's a better solution overall, and right now we're talking more about PRE limits for Tribal Apocalypse and less about general limits on the format.
Relax, this issue will most likely fade and be forgotten by most by next week.
One of the reasons I like PureMTGO is that everyone can have a voice and there are lots of times when discussions and debates over issues such as these come up and are tackled from multiple writers and readers with different and interesting perspectives.
I realize that sometimes it might feel like overkill and I'm sorry if you feel it has reached that point.
Hi Filegott you were not rude as far as I can tell, though I didn't watch every game you played. For some reason I thought the merfolk guy won in the end game but I guess I missed some of it as other things demanded my attention.
I have to say I'm a little shocked by the numbers... not seeing the blues I know every deck running blue has a 98% chance of starting with 4x Daze, 4x FoW, 4x Brainstorm, but some of the others because I kno in paper just about every deck using green has Krosan Grip in main or side not to mention any red results in Lightning Bolt
I must admin that I was one of those playing a very powerful Painter/grindstone deck last weekend (I actually won the thing). I played the deck because I want grindstone banned (I love the tribal format, but I love bending rules even more:)!
I hope I wasn't one of the rude people though. If i were perceived as rude, I'm sorry. English is not my native tongue so you'll have to excuse my misspellings etc.
The rule "Singleton for non-creature cards" sounds great! But I would like to change it to
"Singleton for all cards not part of the Tribe (basic land's excluded)".
Why do I propose this change:
Look at the deck I played last weekend, it had 3 painters and only 1 grindstone in deck. 4 trinket mages and 4 "imperial recruiters" was used for fetch (3 pyroblast as protection and removal).
With this rule change i propose, only 1 painter would be allowed in deck (ouch). Remember that there are a lot of creatures that are combo enablers too (like painter).
The good BoW decks I used to face in extended were all about tutors. Never faced one that failed to play Bow before turn 6. Usually well before that. Their downfall as can be predicted is uber aggro and denial.
Biggest problem I have is them taking away Swiss and 8-4 WWW drafts. So they basically gave us 4-3-2-2 which everyone knows is the crappiest draft payouts, so prizes in essence were cut there as well. I can see WWW becoming the next Eventide where there is much less cards in circulation elevating secondary market prices. WotC definitely dropped the ball there.
There no season points like they do in PPDC andprizes to this point has been equal to the amount of participants then divided 50% for 1st, 25% for 2nd and 12.5% for 3rd and 4th
It all depends on the total prizes (which I am unable to find <.<) and any secondary effect (season points etc...) that would have to be adjusted accordingly.
I'm sure with that data you could probably find out the optimal number of rounds for any size of tournament.
you are right filegott was definitely competitive but he unfortunately got caught in the vortex of everything that happened. I was more mad at him for always having the answer to my cards when i tried to kill his servants more than anyything else...and thats not really mad just frustrated. He played good matches
The missing sideboard cards are 4 Soltari Visionary.
-Alex
your adnaus deck is missing LED which is 4x's in legacy card
Yeah, I wouldn't do 7 rounds of Swiss, that would get to be way too long for some people.
Now that I think about it, I really don't think 5 rounds of swiss are really needed until you hit 16+ players. Unless you want a definitive winner of the tournament rather than a couple of winners. In that case you could just have a playoff round to determine the winner.
The daily events run four rounds and often have multiple 4-0 players without a definitive winner.
I was also one of the people on the Singleton bandwagon. I support either version, total singleton or singleton for just non-creature spells. But as the Painter guy pointed out, there are so many creatures that serve the purpose of other spells, making me run only one copy of a card is not really a hinderance. Especially, if it's a card I can use to win on that turn. Example, fetching Scapeshift while I already have Valakut in play. I'd only need one to kill you.
That is why I was kinda in favor of he creatures only format. I have a few tribal decks that are creature only and they are fairly amazing. Again, that is because so many creatures now can double as spells. Think Trinket Mage or Venser.
So, I played filegott in the casual room a number of times with my Faeries deck (aggro green/blue with only Spellstutter Sprite for control). His deck was not unfair from what I could tell in my games (I went 2-1 against him). Painter's Servant is vulnerable to removal, especially in an environment centered around creatures, so the Grindstone combo is hard to pull off.
Also, every time I played filegott he advertised his game with an indication that he was playing a highly competitive deck. Kudos!
BTW, I run one Gaea's Blessing in my Faerie deck but have no idea how that interacts with Grindstone in MTGO. I think it should install an unending infinite loop in the game. I was hoping to see it happen in my games against filegott, but it never did.
The cost to enter the tournament has also been reduced assuming the resale value of packs doesn't dip too far below 4 tickets.
It used to be 6 packs and 4 tickets, which roughly translates to 28 tickets. It is now 24 tickets.
So, they basically lowered the cost and payout, which effectively flattens the payout. It's slightly worse for players who are very good but also slightly better for weaker players.
old
win % EV (in tickets with 4 tickets per pack value)
33% -19.75472585
50% -9.75
66% 3.204266797
new
win % EV (in tickets with 4 tickets per pack value)
33% -16.64337772
50% -8.25
66% 2.464474204
Note: These calculations don't factor in the resale value of the cards you open in these events
At least it's not like the Exodus release events that paid out in all Exodus packs but required 2 Tempest 2 Stronghold and 2 Exodus to enter.
I understand where you're coming from, but I see issue in all of the suggested options with the exception of swiss, but even then when you have lots of people show all of it lasts longer
typo should have been im not "saying" the blues lol like i thought thered acctually be no blue outside those 3
I still don't get why so many Grixis decks can't handle RDW. If it packs enough spot control (Terminate, Lightning bolt) g1, and has the right counters to back it up, getting to turn 7 is easy. Maybe that's not enough, I guess. But I never have trouble beating RDW, and when I run RDW I always lose to Grix.
Maybe I just suck.
sanhedrin, try to look at criticism from a constructive viewpoint. And don't get married to anything you write.
Nothing is ever perfect.
Consider what people are telling you and try to incorporate their suggestions into your next article.
The release payouts are also different and not as profitable. 1st place is 13 Packs and 2nd place is 8 packs. It was 15 and 10. Shame. At least its not as bad as other non-release sealed payouts.
i like the swiss idea more and more with the flat pay out. I think it would discourage spikes, because really it's two tickets...I like it enough to try it this weekend in fact. The only thing is trying to figure out round structure.
8: 3 round of swiss
9-14: 5 rounds of swiss
15+: 7 rounds of swiss
the last one is the only one i am iffy about because then we are approaching PE length, though are games tend to end rather quickly compared to a tournament.
And no filegott, you were actually decent t wasnt you being rude. Though I am thinking of adding grindstone to the banned list...
Keep in mind, none of the above data covers sideboards (That is the next article). Krosan grip is all over the sideboard data. Bolt made showings in 5 different decks, so it's not as if it didn't show up. Maybe I am miss reading what you wrote. You said, "not seeing the blues I know every deck running blue has a 98% chance of starting with 4x Daze, 4x FoW, 4x Brainstorm," The blues were in there, those cards made the top 10.
fwiw, and that's probably not much, I think the singleton for non creature (or non tribal) cards is a great idea.
Thank you for your input. I think this is a fine suggestion.
Ultimately I would like some kind of change implemented by WotC along these lines, however I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program.
I figured that programming a restriction on noncreature cards would not be that difficult. Programming a restriction on cards outside of your tribe might be a bit more difficult because the cards that are restricted vary based on your tribe.
However you're right, it's a better solution overall, and right now we're talking more about PRE limits for Tribal Apocalypse and less about general limits on the format.
Relax, this issue will most likely fade and be forgotten by most by next week.
One of the reasons I like PureMTGO is that everyone can have a voice and there are lots of times when discussions and debates over issues such as these come up and are tackled from multiple writers and readers with different and interesting perspectives.
I realize that sometimes it might feel like overkill and I'm sorry if you feel it has reached that point.
Hi Filegott you were not rude as far as I can tell, though I didn't watch every game you played. For some reason I thought the merfolk guy won in the end game but I guess I missed some of it as other things demanded my attention.
I have to say I'm a little shocked by the numbers... not seeing the blues I know every deck running blue has a 98% chance of starting with 4x Daze, 4x FoW, 4x Brainstorm, but some of the others because I kno in paper just about every deck using green has Krosan Grip in main or side not to mention any red results in Lightning Bolt
i dont think you could have expected to go any cheaper and still have a successful deck lol
I must admin that I was one of those playing a very powerful Painter/grindstone deck last weekend (I actually won the thing). I played the deck because I want grindstone banned (I love the tribal format, but I love bending rules even more:)!
I hope I wasn't one of the rude people though. If i were perceived as rude, I'm sorry. English is not my native tongue so you'll have to excuse my misspellings etc.
The rule "Singleton for non-creature cards" sounds great! But I would like to change it to
"Singleton for all cards not part of the Tribe (basic land's excluded)".
Why do I propose this change:
Look at the deck I played last weekend, it had 3 painters and only 1 grindstone in deck. 4 trinket mages and 4 "imperial recruiters" was used for fetch (3 pyroblast as protection and removal).
With this rule change i propose, only 1 painter would be allowed in deck (ouch). Remember that there are a lot of creatures that are combo enablers too (like painter).
The good BoW decks I used to face in extended were all about tutors. Never faced one that failed to play Bow before turn 6. Usually well before that. Their downfall as can be predicted is uber aggro and denial.