You did mention a slivers variation and didn't provide a list. :) I get the idea of the article I just felt it was rather short and not very fleshy.
I also think it is a real shame if the pauper format is completely dominated by one deck archetype. If this isn't the case then where are the good answers? (Most of the ones I associate with normally are not pauper.)
The possibility exists that there are decks no one has tried but I think it unlikely. Perhaps the problem is that anything control tends to have a slight edge over anything not control unless the notcontrol is hard to stop or race. That being said it seems that the combination of blue and black gets around the innate problems of facing a hatorer deck. Maybe something needs banning? or perhaps the format needs to be redefined ever so slightly. Is there a good B&R list for Pauper?
Combo is just heinous. No doubt the people who pull off combos feel like they just did something incredible. I remember feeling that way back in the day with the deck I designed for states abusing Tolarian Academy, Stroke etc. However I do think it is very uncasual to run any combo that is likely to go off early. On the other hand this IS the game of magic and it is how it is played.
Avoiding players who make magic unfun for you is a timehonored tradition just as some people won't play me chess or debate with me regarding philosphy (I tend to be incorrigible when I get on a favorite topic.) I am not saying it is the way it should be but it is what it is.
I am not really sure what you mean by "banning". I never have heard anything about that, though to be honest I don't play multi player too often. I know that gents was popular for a time and that meant no LD but gents has as far as I know somewhat disappeared.
RE: concessions to counters with the phrasing that you gave. That is a very reasonable and nice way of putting it. A truly frustrated player might go so far as to cast aspersions in your direction. (It has happened to me.) The fact of the matter is SOME players just aren't good enough to deal with counter decks. And some Decks aren't good enough to stand up to Teir 1-3 decks. Same thing really. The way around this is to advertise that you are playing a tough to beat deck. You don't need to say what it is...just "Tough to beat deck here, bring whatever you want." And then the ball is in their court.
The thallid is a great option if you are only concerned with the Black-blue matchup (great idea btw, hadn't considered this). However there are still other decks in the format that the pants deck is counting on having a favorable matchup -- notably RDW and other aggro decks. In these matchups the Benevolent Bodyguard's ability to protect a creature from removal while sticking Shield of the Oversoul or Armadillo Cloak is crucial.
The idea here isn't to comment on two decks against the entire field but rather to to examine whether GW lists which on paper look like they are geared to crush the black decks actually do in fact have an edge in the matchup.
I find many players play pauper on the side and so when they grab a deck off the net and see six pro-black dudes and are still losing to the Black-blue deck they wonder if they are really that terrible or what is going on.
This article was an attempt to demonstrate that one shouldn't pick up the GW Hate Bears lists and expect to have insane numbers vs the new breed of Bu running the 8 sacrifice effects and for those who are running the old black lists and having trouble with GW it might be time to switch to the updated model.
Yeah i'd pick rod myself, as by that pt you have a lot of removal for the "big stuff", and rod can clear out the small ones u dont want to waste your removal on.
Hah, I can't believe that Imperial Recruiter costs so much irl. I remember cracking one in an MED sealed, checking the value - "eh, it's barely worth a ticket... seems like a decent card but I guess it's not really worth anything."
Go figure.
Hmmm, the most entertaining is videos, but even writeups of the matches with some sideboard tech thrown in. Always nice to see how the cards are used at their best and what cards are marginal/stars in certain matchups. Or how elves behave against control compared to how you play against Zoo :)
Yeah. This is what I could criticize in each of your drafts, very often the Picks look completely random. I'm sure you are a good player, but your drafts are just off. Not sure what your thoughts are behind the picks, but lets analyze it...
P1P3: Consume Spirit is great, if you are Monoblack. Otherwise its just an expensive shock or something less amazing. I'm not sure what for color requirements your decks usually have, but if you want to play this and white knight in the same deck you will have hard times. I'd go with Mind Shatter here. As you said, m10 is about Removal and Bombs, and Shatter easily handles both at a fair price.
P1P5: Again you take a card that need heavy black mana. Wouldnt be a big problem if you establish it as Maincolor, but that seems very unlikely at this point especially with the cards you passed. Pyromancer would have been wonderful here, giving you more options.
P1P8: Weakness is not weak ( ha ha ). In fact its at least 10 times better than the owl, which you are overrating. Ice Cage is also much better being a removal. The Owl is ok, but 1/1 is no real clock and the ability is nearly useless unless you have some shuffle cards.
P2P1: Definately Earthquake. Artillery is a very cool and good card, but 1. color requirements 2. it's not that good. The good critters in this Format have at least Toughness 3 or regenerate, except a few others. Still a wonderful card and the better the more red you have. Earthquake on the other hand is the usual bomb, something between a one sided wrath and fireball.
P2P2: Brainfart, I guess. The Rhino would be ok ( and nothing more ) if you already had picked up a few soldiers. Both Blinding Mage and Gravedigger are ways better than a hill giant...
P2P3: So, just because you have the slim chance of giving him first strike you take the savannah lion over the much better evasion guy? Something is wrong there.
P2P5: You have 2 blue cards and never got a real signal ( except the tabling looter, but I guess you played 4322 where this is common, so maybe no real signla, not sure about this ), but you take the wall now? I don't say the pick is wrong, but a wall is usually not a reson to start drafting the color - would have gone wih th 3/5, better than he looks, but I think the pick is still ok.
P2P8: Faerie is garbage, you better take a good Sb card / sometimes even Maindeck, m10 has some annoying Enchantments and Artifacts.
Btw soooo lucky the 1/3 griffin tabled.
P3P3: Again, your blue is underhelming, but you go on and take another Wall over the in - color Removal Divine Verdict. I don't see you casting the Wall turn 3. And I don't see your blue winning games ( except a lucky looter ). Wall is a great card, but not drafted at random ( as it seems... ).
Ok, I hope that was helpful... otherwise complaints to me.
Hey there, i'm NightAngelRj, we talked a bit about M10 drafting. It's a bit late, but I can't recommend M10 swiss enough for the purpose of gettin QPs. this weekend wasn't so hot for me, but I in total I got over 15 pts in a couple of weeks doing these. Seems lately I lost my touch, but still do 2-1 regularly, even with train wrecks. Of course i'm not raking in the cash, even if I win the entire draft i depend on sellin cards to get any kind of ticket profit, but on the other hand even with a bad draft I lose very little. To me that works fine.
It's pretty simple reasoning, i'm not here to make money you know? I'm here to play infinite. That's my goal. I want to get enough to keep playing.
Anyway, about your draft: I agree with the guy above me. I love looter and blue, but switching into blue THAT late with such obvious signs White/black was open was not ideal. I'd have stuck with WB. I'd prob pick up the looter just in case pack 2 sent insane blue my way, but noth short of mind control, sleep and rare bombs would have made me go into blue.
re: consume spirit vs mind shatter i think taking spirits fine even if it is the "safe" option. Its going to be more usful more of the time and cannot be as easilly emulated by other common picks (mind rot and duress can sub for the shatter effect)
That said i do think the draft went a bit off the tracks.
P1p6 you have good Black and white cards, why are you taking a blue card when theirs a perfectly servicable on colour pick? (excommunicate)
p1p8 - i think this is the right choice, weakness is vastly underrated in this format, it nullifiles nearly all the common evasion dudes in the format and is just fine as a removal spell in the early/midgame.
P1p10 Wall of Faith is on colour and stops most ground pounders.
I don't get why you started picking red at all, and starting out pack two with an double offcolour pick is just awful. Pack two your meant to be reaping the rewards of what you cut pack one not jumping into another colour that may or may not be open.
That said i think picking Earthquake here would have been fine as its a splashable bomb.
P2p2 Gravedigger is insane in this format. Yes a 3/3 first striker is nice and all but i would rather have the card advantage.Blinding Mage is also very very strong, and I considered it here, but you have alot of removal already so i went with the digger.
p2p3 this is a toss up between the flyer and the shade. Looking at the previous picks id take the flyer as your going to want sufficent white sources that the shades never going to be huge (also we already have one)
P2p5 MIND ROT. card advantage in this format is rare. Wall is strong but again its a double offcolour card.
p2p7 Duress is better than you think in this format. alot of the bombs are spells (safe passage, harms way, sleep, overrun , fireball etc).
p2p8 The skele's arent sexy. but they do a sterling job on the ground. Drudge Skeletons.
P2p10 SIGN IN BLOOD. again good CA
P3p1 Doom Blade is the obvious pick here with the changes i suggest above.
p3p3 we already have enough removal by this point but theres nothing better there so Divine Verdict .
p3p4 Griffin
P3p5 Consume Spirit
p3p6 Silvercoat lion, again its not an exciting pick..but we need dudes
p3p7 Zombie Goliath is fine.
p3p8 Acolyte can actually be pretty good in some matchups (control on control where stalls tend to happen).
I think I am the counter-example. I used to play leagues, as I can usually only find an hour or so at a time for MTGO. Now there are no leagues, I mostly just fiddle with my old casual decks, or tweak some pauper lists. I reckon at the moment I am spending about 10 tickets a month on MTGO. I'd usually enter a league every month back in the day. (On a vaguely related topic, I played 3 leagues with lorwyn and opened Liliana, Garruk and Wild Ricochet in all three, but that's another discussion)
Im working on an even more heavilly budget version as i figure 120tixs is still quite alot for anyone wanting to try out the format.
I will be entering the next convienient premier event with this budget version to see if how little money can be spent on this format and yet still make a profit from the weekly event.
If anyones interested i will keep the latest versions updated in the deck section of this website (im currently down to just under 59 tixs for a functioning list, but will try and get this below the $50 mark before the event)
I love the new Necropotence art, personally. I think the original looks like a creature art. I'm hoping to get 1 copy of FTV:E, and trade everything away for a set of lackeys.
I'm happy to describe at this page an a worth thinking of
type of making money. Do you know that one
can earn up to 3% a day through investments without limitations in sums ?
I mean that even having US$1.000,00 one may make the same money in a month !
I recently started to play Pauper and your questions seam to be right.
When you go on big tournaments with Pauper you will mostly see this 2 decks.
Artifact Affinity, Storm and Goblin rush are pretty good but not good enough to beat this 2 decks... at least the BU Control.
I know cause I tried all of them and the best one that works is BU Control. The only thing that got bored in Pauper now is that too many people use BU and its getting boring. Imagine BU vs BU. I really don't see that much fun in it :P
But thx for this great article Motu. I added few cards to my BU ;)
except that you play llanowar elf with the nowledge that as a 1/1 creature, it's always going to be fragile. You don't really think that with a land.
I always get concessions in the casual room to counters. They usually say "Sorry, I'm not good enough to win without playing any spells". That really gets on my nerves, especially as I'm playing a deck with 4xRemand and 3xMystic Snake as the only countermagic.
Personally, I have no problem with countermagic or LD. In fact, the banning of LD in the multiplayer room is a huge huge annoyance to me, as I just end up getting beaten by Cloudposts, Vesuvas and Time Stretches in every single game I enter.
I loved this article, a picture is so much more useful than a list in a format like 100c singleton, where you can guarantee that you haven't heard of at least 10 of the cards in any list, plus 100c singleton decklists are huge and don't really tell you that much at a glance.
If they get a turn 1 mine, turn 2 crucible, on the play, you never get to play your goyf :(
Perhaps I should put mana crypt into my tezzerator deck, once you get a tezz out, most mana denial strategies fall down because he can grab moxes or untap your mana, not to mention hold off any creature assault.
Where is your slivers listing? and You only gave us 2games. Seems a bit short. Also what about other dominant pauper decks, storm, affinity etc. Do they factor at all? Or are you just mostly worried about MBCu vs GW?
You did mention a slivers variation and didn't provide a list. :) I get the idea of the article I just felt it was rather short and not very fleshy.
I also think it is a real shame if the pauper format is completely dominated by one deck archetype. If this isn't the case then where are the good answers? (Most of the ones I associate with normally are not pauper.)
The possibility exists that there are decks no one has tried but I think it unlikely. Perhaps the problem is that anything control tends to have a slight edge over anything not control unless the notcontrol is hard to stop or race. That being said it seems that the combination of blue and black gets around the innate problems of facing a hatorer deck. Maybe something needs banning? or perhaps the format needs to be redefined ever so slightly. Is there a good B&R list for Pauper?
Combo is just heinous. No doubt the people who pull off combos feel like they just did something incredible. I remember feeling that way back in the day with the deck I designed for states abusing Tolarian Academy, Stroke etc. However I do think it is very uncasual to run any combo that is likely to go off early. On the other hand this IS the game of magic and it is how it is played.
Avoiding players who make magic unfun for you is a timehonored tradition just as some people won't play me chess or debate with me regarding philosphy (I tend to be incorrigible when I get on a favorite topic.) I am not saying it is the way it should be but it is what it is.
I am not really sure what you mean by "banning". I never have heard anything about that, though to be honest I don't play multi player too often. I know that gents was popular for a time and that meant no LD but gents has as far as I know somewhat disappeared.
RE: concessions to counters with the phrasing that you gave. That is a very reasonable and nice way of putting it. A truly frustrated player might go so far as to cast aspersions in your direction. (It has happened to me.) The fact of the matter is SOME players just aren't good enough to deal with counter decks. And some Decks aren't good enough to stand up to Teir 1-3 decks. Same thing really. The way around this is to advertise that you are playing a tough to beat deck. You don't need to say what it is...just "Tough to beat deck here, bring whatever you want." And then the ball is in their court.
The thallid is a great option if you are only concerned with the Black-blue matchup (great idea btw, hadn't considered this). However there are still other decks in the format that the pants deck is counting on having a favorable matchup -- notably RDW and other aggro decks. In these matchups the Benevolent Bodyguard's ability to protect a creature from removal while sticking Shield of the Oversoul or Armadillo Cloak is crucial.
The idea here isn't to comment on two decks against the entire field but rather to to examine whether GW lists which on paper look like they are geared to crush the black decks actually do in fact have an edge in the matchup.
I find many players play pauper on the side and so when they grab a deck off the net and see six pro-black dudes and are still losing to the Black-blue deck they wonder if they are really that terrible or what is going on.
This article was an attempt to demonstrate that one shouldn't pick up the GW Hate Bears lists and expect to have insane numbers vs the new breed of Bu running the 8 sacrifice effects and for those who are running the old black lists and having trouble with GW it might be time to switch to the updated model.
Yeah i'd pick rod myself, as by that pt you have a lot of removal for the "big stuff", and rod can clear out the small ones u dont want to waste your removal on.
Hah, I can't believe that Imperial Recruiter costs so much irl. I remember cracking one in an MED sealed, checking the value - "eh, it's barely worth a ticket... seems like a decent card but I guess it's not really worth anything."
Go figure.
Hmmm, the most entertaining is videos, but even writeups of the matches with some sideboard tech thrown in. Always nice to see how the cards are used at their best and what cards are marginal/stars in certain matchups. Or how elves behave against control compared to how you play against Zoo :)
Oh, and P3P4 - What the fuck? Counterspell, Griffin, Rod are all ways better than the owl... you really overrate that card lol
Yeah. This is what I could criticize in each of your drafts, very often the Picks look completely random. I'm sure you are a good player, but your drafts are just off. Not sure what your thoughts are behind the picks, but lets analyze it...
P1P3: Consume Spirit is great, if you are Monoblack. Otherwise its just an expensive shock or something less amazing. I'm not sure what for color requirements your decks usually have, but if you want to play this and white knight in the same deck you will have hard times. I'd go with Mind Shatter here. As you said, m10 is about Removal and Bombs, and Shatter easily handles both at a fair price.
P1P5: Again you take a card that need heavy black mana. Wouldnt be a big problem if you establish it as Maincolor, but that seems very unlikely at this point especially with the cards you passed. Pyromancer would have been wonderful here, giving you more options.
P1P8: Weakness is not weak ( ha ha ). In fact its at least 10 times better than the owl, which you are overrating. Ice Cage is also much better being a removal. The Owl is ok, but 1/1 is no real clock and the ability is nearly useless unless you have some shuffle cards.
P2P1: Definately Earthquake. Artillery is a very cool and good card, but 1. color requirements 2. it's not that good. The good critters in this Format have at least Toughness 3 or regenerate, except a few others. Still a wonderful card and the better the more red you have. Earthquake on the other hand is the usual bomb, something between a one sided wrath and fireball.
P2P2: Brainfart, I guess. The Rhino would be ok ( and nothing more ) if you already had picked up a few soldiers. Both Blinding Mage and Gravedigger are ways better than a hill giant...
P2P3: So, just because you have the slim chance of giving him first strike you take the savannah lion over the much better evasion guy? Something is wrong there.
P2P5: You have 2 blue cards and never got a real signal ( except the tabling looter, but I guess you played 4322 where this is common, so maybe no real signla, not sure about this ), but you take the wall now? I don't say the pick is wrong, but a wall is usually not a reson to start drafting the color - would have gone wih th 3/5, better than he looks, but I think the pick is still ok.
P2P8: Faerie is garbage, you better take a good Sb card / sometimes even Maindeck, m10 has some annoying Enchantments and Artifacts.
Btw soooo lucky the 1/3 griffin tabled.
P3P3: Again, your blue is underhelming, but you go on and take another Wall over the in - color Removal Divine Verdict. I don't see you casting the Wall turn 3. And I don't see your blue winning games ( except a lucky looter ). Wall is a great card, but not drafted at random ( as it seems... ).
Ok, I hope that was helpful... otherwise complaints to me.
Hey there, i'm NightAngelRj, we talked a bit about M10 drafting. It's a bit late, but I can't recommend M10 swiss enough for the purpose of gettin QPs. this weekend wasn't so hot for me, but I in total I got over 15 pts in a couple of weeks doing these. Seems lately I lost my touch, but still do 2-1 regularly, even with train wrecks. Of course i'm not raking in the cash, even if I win the entire draft i depend on sellin cards to get any kind of ticket profit, but on the other hand even with a bad draft I lose very little. To me that works fine.
It's pretty simple reasoning, i'm not here to make money you know? I'm here to play infinite. That's my goal. I want to get enough to keep playing.
Anyway, about your draft: I agree with the guy above me. I love looter and blue, but switching into blue THAT late with such obvious signs White/black was open was not ideal. I'd have stuck with WB. I'd prob pick up the looter just in case pack 2 sent insane blue my way, but noth short of mind control, sleep and rare bombs would have made me go into blue.
re: consume spirit vs mind shatter i think taking spirits fine even if it is the "safe" option. Its going to be more usful more of the time and cannot be as easilly emulated by other common picks (mind rot and duress can sub for the shatter effect)
That said i do think the draft went a bit off the tracks.
P1p6 you have good Black and white cards, why are you taking a blue card when theirs a perfectly servicable on colour pick? (excommunicate)
p1p8 - i think this is the right choice, weakness is vastly underrated in this format, it nullifiles nearly all the common evasion dudes in the format and is just fine as a removal spell in the early/midgame.
P1p10 Wall of Faith is on colour and stops most ground pounders.
I don't get why you started picking red at all, and starting out pack two with an double offcolour pick is just awful. Pack two your meant to be reaping the rewards of what you cut pack one not jumping into another colour that may or may not be open.
That said i think picking Earthquake here would have been fine as its a splashable bomb.
P2p2 Gravedigger is insane in this format. Yes a 3/3 first striker is nice and all but i would rather have the card advantage.Blinding Mage is also very very strong, and I considered it here, but you have alot of removal already so i went with the digger.
p2p3 this is a toss up between the flyer and the shade. Looking at the previous picks id take the flyer as your going to want sufficent white sources that the shades never going to be huge (also we already have one)
P2p5 MIND ROT. card advantage in this format is rare. Wall is strong but again its a double offcolour card.
p2p7 Duress is better than you think in this format. alot of the bombs are spells (safe passage, harms way, sleep, overrun , fireball etc).
p2p8 The skele's arent sexy. but they do a sterling job on the ground. Drudge Skeletons.
P2p10 SIGN IN BLOOD. again good CA
P3p1 Doom Blade is the obvious pick here with the changes i suggest above.
p3p3 we already have enough removal by this point but theres nothing better there so Divine Verdict .
p3p4 Griffin
P3p5 Consume Spirit
p3p6 Silvercoat lion, again its not an exciting pick..but we need dudes
p3p7 Zombie Goliath is fine.
p3p8 Acolyte can actually be pretty good in some matchups (control on control where stalls tend to happen).
Deck would look something like this.
Harms Way
Pacifism x2
Consume Spirit x2
Earthquake
Safe Passage
Doom Blade
Weakness
Griffin Sentinel
Wall of Faith
Stormfront Pegasus
Razorfoot Griffin
Bog Wraith
White Knight
Zombie Goliath x2
Drudge Skeletons
Gravedigger
Looming Shade
Duress
Mind Rot
Sign in Blood
1 Mountain
7 Plains
9 Swamp
SB
Ignite Disorder
Solemn Offering x2
Acolyte of Xathrid
Divine Verdict x2
Palace Guard
Angels Mercy
Whilst its not the best deck ever its definately good enough to 3-0 your average draft.
I think I am the counter-example. I used to play leagues, as I can usually only find an hour or so at a time for MTGO. Now there are no leagues, I mostly just fiddle with my old casual decks, or tweak some pauper lists. I reckon at the moment I am spending about 10 tickets a month on MTGO. I'd usually enter a league every month back in the day. (On a vaguely related topic, I played 3 leagues with lorwyn and opened Liliana, Garruk and Wild Ricochet in all three, but that's another discussion)
Im working on an even more heavilly budget version as i figure 120tixs is still quite alot for anyone wanting to try out the format.
I will be entering the next convienient premier event with this budget version to see if how little money can be spent on this format and yet still make a profit from the weekly event.
If anyones interested i will keep the latest versions updated in the deck section of this website (im currently down to just under 59 tixs for a functioning list, but will try and get this below the $50 mark before the event)
Ambassador seems absolutely nuts in reanimator, so much so its possibly the single best target in the deck.
I love the new Necropotence art, personally. I think the original looks like a creature art. I'm hoping to get 1 copy of FTV:E, and trade everything away for a set of lackeys.
Hello everybody,
I'm happy to describe at this page an a worth thinking of
type of making money. Do you know that one
can earn up to 3% a day through investments without limitations in sums ?
I mean that even having US$1.000,00 one may make the same money in a month !
If anyone gets interested welcome to my blog www.theinvestblog.com .
wow that draft was terrible.... i cant believe you took consume spirit over mind shatter(same with a 3/3 first striker over blinding mage...)
ICHORID HAS RUN STRIP MINE BEFORE for the record manaless ichorid
I recently started to play Pauper and your questions seam to be right.
When you go on big tournaments with Pauper you will mostly see this 2 decks.
Artifact Affinity, Storm and Goblin rush are pretty good but not good enough to beat this 2 decks... at least the BU Control.
I know cause I tried all of them and the best one that works is BU Control. The only thing that got bored in Pauper now is that too many people use BU and its getting boring. Imagine BU vs BU. I really don't see that much fun in it :P
But thx for this great article Motu. I added few cards to my BU ;)
except that you play llanowar elf with the nowledge that as a 1/1 creature, it's always going to be fragile. You don't really think that with a land.
I always get concessions in the casual room to counters. They usually say "Sorry, I'm not good enough to win without playing any spells". That really gets on my nerves, especially as I'm playing a deck with 4xRemand and 3xMystic Snake as the only countermagic.
Personally, I have no problem with countermagic or LD. In fact, the banning of LD in the multiplayer room is a huge huge annoyance to me, as I just end up getting beaten by Cloudposts, Vesuvas and Time Stretches in every single game I enter.
I loved this article, a picture is so much more useful than a list in a format like 100c singleton, where you can guarantee that you haven't heard of at least 10 of the cards in any list, plus 100c singleton decklists are huge and don't really tell you that much at a glance.
Are you sure about only 5000 copies being sold on MTGO?
If they get a turn 1 mine, turn 2 crucible, on the play, you never get to play your goyf :(
Perhaps I should put mana crypt into my tezzerator deck, once you get a tezz out, most mana denial strategies fall down because he can grab moxes or untap your mana, not to mention hold off any creature assault.
I'm glad I run Leyline in the maindeck :)
not even sure you could say Ponza was a total success. ErnhamGeddon was the last one that seemed to completely dominate at least in my crappy memory.
Where is your slivers listing? and You only gave us 2games. Seems a bit short. Also what about other dominant pauper decks, storm, affinity etc. Do they factor at all? Or are you just mostly worried about MBCu vs GW?