First of all, thank you for taking the time to comment! It's important for me to get feedback from all sides of the discussion!
Secondly, two of the things you mentioned would actually *decrease* single card values, despite them being good things in general for the program.
Leagues introduce larger amounts of cards as the pkayer come back to MTGO to play in them. If WotC does want higher card prices for the players, leagues would not help that. Even though I love leagues and want them back very badly. Leagues would not help increase individual card prices.
Better trading is something I'd love to see. And it would undoubtedly decrease card values as suddenly every card in every collection finally becomes tradeable. Again. More cards in the market would not help prices to increase. Again, I want this and hope for ot to happen.
The few ways to increase card prices are increased demand and/or reduced supply.
As I mentioned, there's a limited amount of valves that WotC can control directly. Redemption, prizes, others have mentioned there are ways to change somethings that could help. Modified redemption, new formats, etc. I don't see WotC adding too many new formats in the near future, although I'd love to see choose your own standard as an official format.
This article isn't a list of things I *want* to see happen. It's a list of things that I think WotC may do if they decided to increase individual card prices.
Lastly, MTGO is growing, very fasr, and this growth is part of the reason for the bigger and bigger release turnout which, of course, is part of the card price plummeting we've seen accelerate with each release.
I'm 100% in agreement. Bring back the big set. It might help card prices. It might make limited more fun/varied. It might stretch R&D thin and let a few mistakes through. So crank the set size back up and keep a watchful eye for the next skullclamp.
Or it might not have a material effect. But what the heck... change for change sake.
I have another suggestion that could help singles prices.... Larger sets. I mean the return to 120 rare sets. or 110 + 10 mythics or something drastic. Personally I liked when there was a large variance in sealed pools etc... cept when there weren't enough answers to the great cards :)
This article really offended me. Seriously, you aren't smart enough to think of another way of increasing demand other than cutting prizes?
Small horizons.
More people playing, increases demand. Of course for that to happen, Wizards would actually need to fix the program... implement leagues, revamp the trading system, fix multiplayer, make clans matter... basically let the program bloom. They aren't competent enough to do it.
I don't think you need to cheerlead for prize cutting, and the very fact you are doing it annoys me.
I can understand people disliking land destruction, but you're right, counterspells make no sense. (I have no problem with either, but I at least understand the LD thing.)
Regarding Gift's Ungiven: I expect it to be a mistake and changed to something else (Sol Ring please ;)).
That said it is CLEARLY not in both decks but only in Rubina Soulsinger seeing as she is the only blue card and while I can see them missing the fact that Gift's has recently been banned, I do not - can not - believe that they missed the fact that Xira Arien does not have blue mana in her mana cost...
doesn't MTGOtraders get their prices from Cardbot? aka, the man behind the man?
I imagine that people who paid market prices for their 10th ed or Kamigawa block Pithing Needles have lost a few tickets in value. They were selling for 6 or 7 tix, I think, prior to M10. MTGOtraders was obviously stockpiling them to lose between 2 and 3 tix per transaction.
Paranoia about mtgo bots/shops is unjustified. Having fair prices and a good selection builds loyalty, a huge factor in a perfectly competitive market as it is defined in classical economic theory. Trying to 'game' the market just doesn't pay off. Starting a free website and paying writers for content works way better at establishing market presence and customer loyalty, as far as I can tell.
Could it be that M10 is so vastly popular that everyone and their mother is drafting this set to oblivion? Could it be that M10 supply ACTUALLY IS far higher than 10th, 9th or 8th edition?
Could it be that players are hesitant to sell cards that are nearly worthless in light of the fast deflation M10 is experiencing?
Could it be that this always normally happens in the second week of Release Events?
MTGO Traders is very fair with its prices. If you see this set losing value fast consider this: Redemption :D
Excellent Job. Great casual Magic writing. I was happy to see Lyzolda on your list of fun pets. Since she was printed I've been making Bloodwitch decks, especially teaming her up with Sekkuar Deathkeeper and Savra. One thing I've found working with her is another way around the ‘Unstickability’ problems with her is getting her back from the yard, even if its just with cheepo stuff like Gravediggers. Target her with a shock and she sac's herself, netting you a card and a shock of your own, then pop her back into yer hand.
Great series of articles. A refreshing break from too much Spike.
This is what i see, when i check the availability of m10 cards for sale by mtgotraders I often see zero or low single digits in supply for staple cards, yet their prices keep dropping. What this means is that either they are bad at doing a supply and demand ratio (not buying for enough and/or not selling for enough to keep stocked) or they are gaming the market and stocking up supplies on the cheap while limited players and pack openers suffer in lost trade and sale value from their events.
eg. birds of paradise: ravnica, 10th or eighth ed versions in stock 49, sale price 3.5 (100% higher)
M10 version in stock 2, sale price 1.75 (50% lower)
pithing needle: 10th edition in stock 24, price 2.5 (similar price disparity to birds)
M10 in stock 1, price 1.3
siege-gang commander: 10th ed in stock 10, price 2.5 (150% more)
M10 in stock 0, price 1.0(alot less)
Howling mine: 7th 8th 9th and 10th ed versions in stock 51, price 3.5-4.5(almost 3x higher)
M10 in stock 5, price 1.5 (almost 3x lower)
Read into it what you will, I've come to my own suspicions.
mtgotraders is a trendsetter and has the ability to warp the market, its what is generally used to mediate trades casually (I've never had anyone ask to use any other reference).
We also have torch already, it was in Mirage. I guess he named torch because it's more old school, and because torch is harder to Commandeer. In fact, in most instances kaervek's torch is probably better than Banefire or Demonfire.
I like the article and I agree on your evaluations. I am getting one for paper magic to get some fodder for my EDH decks and some nice pimp at that. I've managed to preorder one at the SRP so I feel good about it :) I won't get one for MTGO though, if I need any of the cards, I think I'll buy singles instead.
You forgot Necropotence in the final table. Not there is much to say, considering the Beatdown set had a foily good-art necro, so the only thing "positive" one could say about Necro in Exiled, for either paper or online, is that, uh, it brings necro to the new cardframe?
Redemption without mythics makes a lot of sense if they don't have a different print run for MTGO redemption, because then for every set they redempt they are stuck with extra rares in the same way MTGO is.
However, if they do have a print run exclusively for the sake of redemption - and that seems quite likely to me - then they have no benefit whatsoever in offering two types of redemption.
Besides, that might not increase the value of collections so much as balancing the values of mythics and rares, although I might be wrong.
...I want the prices to be as low as possible. I want access to all the cards so that i can play well and be competitive at the same time. Sure this is an age-old debate, but i'm throwing the gauntlets down and saying i want more product out there. I got giddy when i saw second chart w/ the price drops. For $10 i can find someone to sell me 4x Honor of the Pure now instead of maybe being able to afford 1x. MTGO is a far cry from my paper days when i'd buy a half-dozen boxes of the new set for a huge discount online and just rip packs open until i got what i wanted. I've found that i have to be choosy about what decks i construct and what cards i buy cause i have a limited budget. this makes deck building a challange for me and my limited supply because i can't test every deck i want to, i can only test the decks i can afford. i want to be competitive just like everybody else, but i don't have the money to spend on top tier decks. so putting more product out there allows somebody like me to be more competitive in the long run.
There are several things that WotC can do to affect card values outside of decreasing prizes.
1 - For new/current cards, they could offer two types of redemption, with Mythics and without Mythics. I am not sure what the impacts of this would be to printing because I do not know their exact printing process. If it is from a computer file, it does not seem difficult to have 1 file that has the set with sheets that contain mythics and another file that does not.
2 - For older/historic release cards they can offer more formats like Build Your Own Standard and Block Wars that would help boost demand for cards that are not good enough to compete in classic.
I am sure there are more, but these two were the first to come to mind.
Someone at wizard screwing up is the least likely scenario? Have we been playing the same game? They've been screwing up, what, every other week on average?
First of all, thank you for taking the time to comment! It's important for me to get feedback from all sides of the discussion!
Secondly, two of the things you mentioned would actually *decrease* single card values, despite them being good things in general for the program.
Leagues introduce larger amounts of cards as the pkayer come back to MTGO to play in them. If WotC does want higher card prices for the players, leagues would not help that. Even though I love leagues and want them back very badly. Leagues would not help increase individual card prices.
Better trading is something I'd love to see. And it would undoubtedly decrease card values as suddenly every card in every collection finally becomes tradeable. Again. More cards in the market would not help prices to increase. Again, I want this and hope for ot to happen.
The few ways to increase card prices are increased demand and/or reduced supply.
As I mentioned, there's a limited amount of valves that WotC can control directly. Redemption, prizes, others have mentioned there are ways to change somethings that could help. Modified redemption, new formats, etc. I don't see WotC adding too many new formats in the near future, although I'd love to see choose your own standard as an official format.
This article isn't a list of things I *want* to see happen. It's a list of things that I think WotC may do if they decided to increase individual card prices.
Lastly, MTGO is growing, very fasr, and this growth is part of the reason for the bigger and bigger release turnout which, of course, is part of the card price plummeting we've seen accelerate with each release.
I'm 100% in agreement. Bring back the big set. It might help card prices. It might make limited more fun/varied. It might stretch R&D thin and let a few mistakes through. So crank the set size back up and keep a watchful eye for the next skullclamp.
Or it might not have a material effect. But what the heck... change for change sake.
I have another suggestion that could help singles prices.... Larger sets. I mean the return to 120 rare sets. or 110 + 10 mythics or something drastic. Personally I liked when there was a large variance in sealed pools etc... cept when there weren't enough answers to the great cards :)
This article really offended me. Seriously, you aren't smart enough to think of another way of increasing demand other than cutting prizes?
Small horizons.
More people playing, increases demand. Of course for that to happen, Wizards would actually need to fix the program... implement leagues, revamp the trading system, fix multiplayer, make clans matter... basically let the program bloom. They aren't competent enough to do it.
I don't think you need to cheerlead for prize cutting, and the very fact you are doing it annoys me.
I can understand people disliking land destruction, but you're right, counterspells make no sense. (I have no problem with either, but I at least understand the LD thing.)
Regarding Gift's Ungiven: I expect it to be a mistake and changed to something else (Sol Ring please ;)).
That said it is CLEARLY not in both decks but only in Rubina Soulsinger seeing as she is the only blue card and while I can see them missing the fact that Gift's has recently been banned, I do not - can not - believe that they missed the fact that Xira Arien does not have blue mana in her mana cost...
doesn't MTGOtraders get their prices from Cardbot? aka, the man behind the man?
I imagine that people who paid market prices for their 10th ed or Kamigawa block Pithing Needles have lost a few tickets in value. They were selling for 6 or 7 tix, I think, prior to M10. MTGOtraders was obviously stockpiling them to lose between 2 and 3 tix per transaction.
Paranoia about mtgo bots/shops is unjustified. Having fair prices and a good selection builds loyalty, a huge factor in a perfectly competitive market as it is defined in classical economic theory. Trying to 'game' the market just doesn't pay off. Starting a free website and paying writers for content works way better at establishing market presence and customer loyalty, as far as I can tell.
Rhystic Study is from Prophecy, not Nemesis.
Could it be that M10 is so vastly popular that everyone and their mother is drafting this set to oblivion? Could it be that M10 supply ACTUALLY IS far higher than 10th, 9th or 8th edition?
Could it be that players are hesitant to sell cards that are nearly worthless in light of the fast deflation M10 is experiencing?
Could it be that this always normally happens in the second week of Release Events?
MTGO Traders is very fair with its prices. If you see this set losing value fast consider this: Redemption :D
Excellent Job. Great casual Magic writing. I was happy to see Lyzolda on your list of fun pets. Since she was printed I've been making Bloodwitch decks, especially teaming her up with Sekkuar Deathkeeper and Savra. One thing I've found working with her is another way around the ‘Unstickability’ problems with her is getting her back from the yard, even if its just with cheepo stuff like Gravediggers. Target her with a shock and she sac's herself, netting you a card and a shock of your own, then pop her back into yer hand.
Great series of articles. A refreshing break from too much Spike.
This is what i see, when i check the availability of m10 cards for sale by mtgotraders I often see zero or low single digits in supply for staple cards, yet their prices keep dropping. What this means is that either they are bad at doing a supply and demand ratio (not buying for enough and/or not selling for enough to keep stocked) or they are gaming the market and stocking up supplies on the cheap while limited players and pack openers suffer in lost trade and sale value from their events.
eg. birds of paradise: ravnica, 10th or eighth ed versions in stock 49, sale price 3.5 (100% higher)
M10 version in stock 2, sale price 1.75 (50% lower)
pithing needle: 10th edition in stock 24, price 2.5 (similar price disparity to birds)
M10 in stock 1, price 1.3
siege-gang commander: 10th ed in stock 10, price 2.5 (150% more)
M10 in stock 0, price 1.0(alot less)
Howling mine: 7th 8th 9th and 10th ed versions in stock 51, price 3.5-4.5(almost 3x higher)
M10 in stock 5, price 1.5 (almost 3x lower)
Read into it what you will, I've come to my own suspicions.
mtgotraders is a trendsetter and has the ability to warp the market, its what is generally used to mediate trades casually (I've never had anyone ask to use any other reference).
We also have torch already, it was in Mirage. I guess he named torch because it's more old school, and because torch is harder to Commandeer. In fact, in most instances kaervek's torch is probably better than Banefire or Demonfire.
why wait for torch when we got banefire now
You can expect to get a random dual every 5 drafts. You can expect a given dual (e.g. Bayou) every 75 packs. I should have been clearer.
I like the article and I agree on your evaluations. I am getting one for paper magic to get some fodder for my EDH decks and some nice pimp at that. I've managed to preorder one at the SRP so I feel good about it :) I won't get one for MTGO though, if I need any of the cards, I think I'll buy singles instead.
i cracked over 75 packs of med2 for drafting, one tundra, thats it, same with reborn, over 70 packs one pulse.
total scaming with the "random' rare in those packs
You forgot Necropotence in the final table. Not there is much to say, considering the Beatdown set had a foily good-art necro, so the only thing "positive" one could say about Necro in Exiled, for either paper or online, is that, uh, it brings necro to the new cardframe?
They really dropped the ball on that card.
screw the new necro art. lol.
seriously it is horrendus.
there was a foil balance, you will get to see the art on sunday.
sigh for the timing, 2 exiled articles before mine bah,
good job tyler, i like your opinions except think your crazy for likeing strip mine on modo.
Redemption without mythics makes a lot of sense if they don't have a different print run for MTGO redemption, because then for every set they redempt they are stuck with extra rares in the same way MTGO is.
However, if they do have a print run exclusively for the sake of redemption - and that seems quite likely to me - then they have no benefit whatsoever in offering two types of redemption.
Besides, that might not increase the value of collections so much as balancing the values of mythics and rares, although I might be wrong.
i wish i could find this in paper for under 50 bucks, not going to happen i feel
...I want the prices to be as low as possible. I want access to all the cards so that i can play well and be competitive at the same time. Sure this is an age-old debate, but i'm throwing the gauntlets down and saying i want more product out there. I got giddy when i saw second chart w/ the price drops. For $10 i can find someone to sell me 4x Honor of the Pure now instead of maybe being able to afford 1x. MTGO is a far cry from my paper days when i'd buy a half-dozen boxes of the new set for a huge discount online and just rip packs open until i got what i wanted. I've found that i have to be choosy about what decks i construct and what cards i buy cause i have a limited budget. this makes deck building a challange for me and my limited supply because i can't test every deck i want to, i can only test the decks i can afford. i want to be competitive just like everybody else, but i don't have the money to spend on top tier decks. so putting more product out there allows somebody like me to be more competitive in the long run.
There are several things that WotC can do to affect card values outside of decreasing prizes.
1 - For new/current cards, they could offer two types of redemption, with Mythics and without Mythics. I am not sure what the impacts of this would be to printing because I do not know their exact printing process. If it is from a computer file, it does not seem difficult to have 1 file that has the set with sheets that contain mythics and another file that does not.
2 - For older/historic release cards they can offer more formats like Build Your Own Standard and Block Wars that would help boost demand for cards that are not good enough to compete in classic.
I am sure there are more, but these two were the first to come to mind.
Someone at wizard screwing up is the least likely scenario? Have we been playing the same game? They've been screwing up, what, every other week on average?
Sycophant.
I have no idea how I read it that way. I suppose I use that play too often myself. Whoops!
I look forward to your next article as always.