You and dangerlinto need to stop this forum crusade against strip mine. It's one restricted card, and there aren't many good options for tutoring & playing it turn one. Don't quote mine me on this with nonsense like Lotus petal, Dark ritual, Demonic tutor scenarios you know damn well that's an uncommon and unlikely thing to happen. Plus, that mythical player needs to get crucible down fast or it's a worthless play, which is another 3 mana off of NO resources.
There are many decks that currently function with 1-2 mana, including both combo and aggro. Lackey for goblins, Aether vial for merfolk & other creature decks, and Zoo's natural 1 mana curve will keep them in the game. Most combo is ritual based.
Without fastbond or exploration, the crucible based decks aren't as powerful as paper counterparts. That should keep the parity between mine/crucible and every other deck in the format.
It is justanotherviable strategy and will remain that way for the forseeable future. Mark my words, the tournament results will echo my statements. Sure, strip mine will show up in a large % of winning decks, but as a side strategy (like in aggro decks) and not some crucible-centric LD strategy.
Well i agree we disagree.
if this game wasn't this addictive then we wouldn't have V3 , they would shut it down on V2.5 already , i can't see any other reason for a game that's crash's , have poor payouts,its CS is not the best ,have a lot of connections issues , and cost a lot way more then it should cost,have poor UI, and its a very complex game would be successful , the game is not user friendly from installation to playing , hell i even told my brother about it and he couldn't get pass the connection screen , some times you couldn't even register as a new player (does that sounds like a good and friendly game /?)
I'm not saying that all the magic players are hooked , but i believe that a lot are , and therefor they will keep playing even if the Wotc would change a lot of things like booster prices and prizes , sure they keep it in their interest to keep us happy but keep in mind that its money , (see MED1-MED3 for money).
if i was running the show i would do the math , and i believe that after doing the math i would say no to leagues.
I wish hammy would give some information about that.
1) Honor of the Pure is more like Glorious Anthem than Crusade which is just an awful card imho. Glorious Anthem is not an amazing card either but it at least only effects your guys and is not subject to strange tweakings with mind bends etc. Now Honor of the Pure sacrifices some of the utility of Glorious Anthem for the lower cost which makes it fit a white weenie strategy more strongly. (Turn 1 Lions#2, turn 2 Honor of the pure turn 3 some exalted weenie sure sounds like a beating.)
2) The singleton tourney sounds like fun but I have yet to find a build with my very limited collection that plays consistently or well. I tried a 5c Elemental deck (because I can and like elementals :p) and it had the most success but still lost to serious 100s decks. Something to note is that the casual room decks for 100s tend to be on the serious side. Not for fun.
Anyway I'll think about signing up. I probably have the time though scheduling issues might be a problem.
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I for one don't feel I have a problem. You are the one stating a problem and I disagree with that assumption. Your assumption is based on conjecture and loosely gather "factoids" that we can't be sure of the source of.
For example in 2.5 (one of the main reasons for the upgrade btw) drafts crashed often enough to keep the numbers down. I am not claiming this is the sole factor in the increase. (The servers being better and multiple.) I am just saying it's a large factor and you aren't even crediting it. Also I don't think that league players are necessarily the same players that play draft every day, every tuesday or once a month.
As far as addiction goes...well that is a personal statement. As an addict (recovering and in sobriety for 25 years) I can assure that is not something to lightly label someone who engages in a passionate hobby. I have walked away from magic for years at a time and only occasionally have I spent money directly on the game. Have I spent a good deal of time on it? Sure, but then I don't spend that time on my other hobbies as much any more because their availability and the opportunity to engage in them has diminished.
I also disagree that the WotC People think the way you say they do. It is dangerous thinking for a company to become complacent because they believe their market has become hooked enough that they can act without consequence. Most companies shy from this sort of thinking unless strongly encouraged by circumstances.
All I am saying is don't make blanket statements about other people when you don't have all the data. On the other hand thanks for responding to my rather long post.
myMTGO.com is sponsoring a FREE 100 card Singleton tournament (more like a league in my opinion) where top prize is a Force of Will, second is a Grindstone and third is a Sword of Fire and Ice. Did I mention it's free and allows you to play on a very flexible schedule?
Even if you just want to have a shot at the format, it's a good tournament to play in because it costs you nothing more than some time and you might be able to win the big prizes.
You see, your problem lies in the assumption that MTGO is a normal product, and its not, i mean its not normal in the sense of us the customers of that product, we are addicted to it much like there is an addiction to gambling and cigarettes.
they can bumb up the booster price for 6$ and we still gonna play , they can have lag problems , crashs, bad CS , and so on we still gonna play , why ? because its an addiction much like alot of things in life that we get addicted to (poker, smoking, etc.. ) we can quit playing poker, sure but we don't quit unless something radical happens.
So some folks on the WoTC have that knowledge and with that knowledge they have the numbers, and they see that since V3 started they are more drafts , (hammy i think you have that information ), i mean compare the number of drafts fired when V2.5 was up , and now the number of drafts i think there is big difference between those numbers even if you take into consideration the increase in the number of players i belive that numbers are alot bigger..
when the Wotc look at these numbers they know that leagues will not mean more money but less. so they take their time and its on the bottom of their todo list ,
for example a WOTC manager look at these numbers,
hmmm
on V2.5 i had "X" players on avarage , with "Y" drafts for day and "Z" leagues a day
thats about "ABCDE" boosters sold for months (+event ticktes)
(each league is 6 boosters X 128 players)
on V3 i have "Q" players on avarage, with "W" drafts for day and 0 LEAGUES , now where did i made more money and are these leagues players worth more without leagues ??? the answer for that is YES THEY DO..... and thats why we wont see leagues for a long time , you ready belive that leagues are that hard to implant ? WAKE UP they are not...
some ppl there love magic but its business and the numbers speak more then anything else.
i wish hamtastic would share some of his statistical information on that issue
I know I'm in the minority here but I like the new Necro.
Sure, they replaced "iconic" art but we already have that foil Necro online and the new art is interesting.
Also, keep in mind that they're trying to appeal to as wide segment of the player base as possible with these special releases and so some stuff that casual players like had to be included.
I sincerely hope you are wrong since that really IS gaming the market. If WotC is so busy worried about selling boosters that they can't see they are alienating a market base then they are eventually going to be so shortsighted that the game will not last. ("The sky is falling! The sky is falling!").
I truly don't believe these people are that evil. I know a few of them personally and they are conscientious hard working and love the game. Yes WotC is a corp and corps suck because they are life-draining, soulless machines but they are made of people and these particular people do care about the game they are working on, I think. That is of course my opinion. There are probably some people there who don't care so much and who are more interested in pleasing the parent company etc but I think most of WotC's problems with Magic Online stem from poor decision making, mistakes and just the general screwedness of life. When they realize their mistakes they fix them...eventually. At least I hope they will in terms of League Play. To say that it just isn't profitable enough would be a huge mistake imho. Some people who spend nothing on magic now would be far more inclined to buy into leagues where they get bang for their buck than they are now.
I went and bought some Royal Assassins from mtgotraders (20 cents each) and put this idea to the test. I mean the assassins + decoys. Icy Manipulators, Goldmeadow Harriors, Dauthi Trappers, plus some mass removal and graveyard recurrsion to make things a bit more interesting. I ran into combo (though 2 were creature combo and 1 was old affinity Mycosynth Golems and Planar Portals to get out Platinum Angels and Darksteel Collosus which is just a "good game".) in 4 out of 5 games. Go figure. Anyway it does ok if you can draw into enough mana to cover the expense of the tappers and other things you need to do to get the "engine" working.
I disagree , I like alot more players was a league player , now i play drafts since there are no leagues and i crack alot more boosters then i did
when leagues are back , i will crack less boosters , alot less
i play 1 -2 leagues a month (about 9 boosters each if i remeber ) now i draft every day and its 3 boosters a day, so its about 100 boosters i crack VS 18
i know alot of players would switch to leagues as soon as they are up , but its not gonna happen since the Wotc know they will lose money..
but it also punishes you too. The difference is you get to control it. Just as Rishadan Port is a kind of double punishment. Strip mine is not a game ender however. It merely makes life difficult. Wasteland is also a game annoyance but only takes out the most essential of your lands :p. Also think of this fun fact: Wasteland kills Stripmine :D
The fabled reserve list. Is that the same list that had the original dual lands on it? I seem to recall the promise not to reprint a lot of things that have since seen reprints or remakes. Not that I am not grateful for those as I no longer have a physical collection to speak of. :D
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I guess the one that popped into my head first was Lightning Greaves. Then your assassin becomes a true Assassinate with legs (assuming he lives long enough to pass priority once).
I enjoyed the article and I agree with players not understanding what playing around different types of control means. The outcry at playing Dark Banishing on a Llanowar Elf should be roughly equal to that of playing a Stone Rain on the forest they just put into play (er...onto the battlefield) via Rampant Growth.
"There are Mythics in M10. A M10 BoP is half as rare as a 10th BoP.
Duh."
As far as who sets prices cardbot or mtgotraders I have no idea, either way some company is at the source and mtgotraders has an intimate relationship with the other.
The idea that merely because mythics are in M10 that rare values go down that much is just silly. You could certianly argue that it reduces the value of all versions of the card or similar versions of the card but not just the one with the little m10 logo on it, the 10th birds version and the m10 version look nearly identical, in this kind of market the preference because of scarcity value might be 10% not 100%(when there is actually different art or border or the card is from it's original printing there can be big differences), that's what's obvious.. duh.
Wasteland punishes you for playing too many colors or a whacky mana base.
Strip Mine punishes you for playing magic. Really, played more than 1 times it screws so badly its hard to recover.
"Speaking of special items... we have some MTGO only items coming up that will exist only on MTGO. Those being the Commander decks. What we'll have is essentially ultra-rare commons again for formats like Pauper. Cards like "
C'mon Ham, cards like what? Don't leave us hanging!
You and dangerlinto need to stop this forum crusade against strip mine. It's one restricted card, and there aren't many good options for tutoring & playing it turn one. Don't quote mine me on this with nonsense like Lotus petal, Dark ritual, Demonic tutor scenarios you know damn well that's an uncommon and unlikely thing to happen. Plus, that mythical player needs to get crucible down fast or it's a worthless play, which is another 3 mana off of NO resources.
There are many decks that currently function with 1-2 mana, including both combo and aggro. Lackey for goblins, Aether vial for merfolk & other creature decks, and Zoo's natural 1 mana curve will keep them in the game. Most combo is ritual based.
Without fastbond or exploration, the crucible based decks aren't as powerful as paper counterparts. That should keep the parity between mine/crucible and every other deck in the format.
It is justanotherviable strategy and will remain that way for the forseeable future. Mark my words, the tournament results will echo my statements. Sure, strip mine will show up in a large % of winning decks, but as a side strategy (like in aggro decks) and not some crucible-centric LD strategy.
wasteland only kills stripmine if you have no other lands in play other than that you just got 2 for 1ed
Well i agree we disagree.
if this game wasn't this addictive then we wouldn't have V3 , they would shut it down on V2.5 already , i can't see any other reason for a game that's crash's , have poor payouts,its CS is not the best ,have a lot of connections issues , and cost a lot way more then it should cost,have poor UI, and its a very complex game would be successful , the game is not user friendly from installation to playing , hell i even told my brother about it and he couldn't get pass the connection screen , some times you couldn't even register as a new player (does that sounds like a good and friendly game /?)
I'm not saying that all the magic players are hooked , but i believe that a lot are , and therefor they will keep playing even if the Wotc would change a lot of things like booster prices and prizes , sure they keep it in their interest to keep us happy but keep in mind that its money , (see MED1-MED3 for money).
if i was running the show i would do the math , and i believe that after doing the math i would say no to leagues.
I wish hammy would give some information about that.
1) Honor of the Pure is more like Glorious Anthem than Crusade which is just an awful card imho. Glorious Anthem is not an amazing card either but it at least only effects your guys and is not subject to strange tweakings with mind bends etc. Now Honor of the Pure sacrifices some of the utility of Glorious Anthem for the lower cost which makes it fit a white weenie strategy more strongly. (Turn 1 Lions#2, turn 2 Honor of the pure turn 3 some exalted weenie sure sounds like a beating.)
2) The singleton tourney sounds like fun but I have yet to find a build with my very limited collection that plays consistently or well. I tried a 5c Elemental deck (because I can and like elementals :p) and it had the most success but still lost to serious 100s decks. Something to note is that the casual room decks for 100s tend to be on the serious side. Not for fun.
Anyway I'll think about signing up. I probably have the time though scheduling issues might be a problem.
it's just wrong ungodly, inhumane, just no.
@Who me?
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I for one don't feel I have a problem. You are the one stating a problem and I disagree with that assumption. Your assumption is based on conjecture and loosely gather "factoids" that we can't be sure of the source of.
For example in 2.5 (one of the main reasons for the upgrade btw) drafts crashed often enough to keep the numbers down. I am not claiming this is the sole factor in the increase. (The servers being better and multiple.) I am just saying it's a large factor and you aren't even crediting it. Also I don't think that league players are necessarily the same players that play draft every day, every tuesday or once a month.
As far as addiction goes...well that is a personal statement. As an addict (recovering and in sobriety for 25 years) I can assure that is not something to lightly label someone who engages in a passionate hobby. I have walked away from magic for years at a time and only occasionally have I spent money directly on the game. Have I spent a good deal of time on it? Sure, but then I don't spend that time on my other hobbies as much any more because their availability and the opportunity to engage in them has diminished.
I also disagree that the WotC People think the way you say they do. It is dangerous thinking for a company to become complacent because they believe their market has become hooked enough that they can act without consequence. Most companies shy from this sort of thinking unless strongly encouraged by circumstances.
All I am saying is don't make blanket statements about other people when you don't have all the data. On the other hand thanks for responding to my rather long post.
Important update:
myMTGO.com is sponsoring a FREE 100 card Singleton tournament (more like a league in my opinion) where top prize is a Force of Will, second is a Grindstone and third is a Sword of Fire and Ice. Did I mention it's free and allows you to play on a very flexible schedule?
Exact details can be found here: http://mymtgo.com/Tweaker/blog/494/
Even if you just want to have a shot at the format, it's a good tournament to play in because it costs you nothing more than some time and you might be able to win the big prizes.
You see, your problem lies in the assumption that MTGO is a normal product, and its not, i mean its not normal in the sense of us the customers of that product, we are addicted to it much like there is an addiction to gambling and cigarettes.
they can bumb up the booster price for 6$ and we still gonna play , they can have lag problems , crashs, bad CS , and so on we still gonna play , why ? because its an addiction much like alot of things in life that we get addicted to (poker, smoking, etc.. ) we can quit playing poker, sure but we don't quit unless something radical happens.
So some folks on the WoTC have that knowledge and with that knowledge they have the numbers, and they see that since V3 started they are more drafts , (hammy i think you have that information ), i mean compare the number of drafts fired when V2.5 was up , and now the number of drafts i think there is big difference between those numbers even if you take into consideration the increase in the number of players i belive that numbers are alot bigger..
when the Wotc look at these numbers they know that leagues will not mean more money but less. so they take their time and its on the bottom of their todo list ,
for example a WOTC manager look at these numbers,
hmmm
on V2.5 i had "X" players on avarage , with "Y" drafts for day and "Z" leagues a day
thats about "ABCDE" boosters sold for months (+event ticktes)
(each league is 6 boosters X 128 players)
on V3 i have "Q" players on avarage, with "W" drafts for day and 0 LEAGUES , now where did i made more money and are these leagues players worth more without leagues ??? the answer for that is YES THEY DO..... and thats why we wont see leagues for a long time , you ready belive that leagues are that hard to implant ? WAKE UP they are not...
some ppl there love magic but its business and the numbers speak more then anything else.
i wish hamtastic would share some of his statistical information on that issue
I know I'm in the minority here but I like the new Necro.
Sure, they replaced "iconic" art but we already have that foil Necro online and the new art is interesting.
Also, keep in mind that they're trying to appeal to as wide segment of the player base as possible with these special releases and so some stuff that casual players like had to be included.
All in all it's well worth the 35.00
I sincerely hope you are wrong since that really IS gaming the market. If WotC is so busy worried about selling boosters that they can't see they are alienating a market base then they are eventually going to be so shortsighted that the game will not last. ("The sky is falling! The sky is falling!").
I truly don't believe these people are that evil. I know a few of them personally and they are conscientious hard working and love the game. Yes WotC is a corp and corps suck because they are life-draining, soulless machines but they are made of people and these particular people do care about the game they are working on, I think. That is of course my opinion. There are probably some people there who don't care so much and who are more interested in pleasing the parent company etc but I think most of WotC's problems with Magic Online stem from poor decision making, mistakes and just the general screwedness of life. When they realize their mistakes they fix them...eventually. At least I hope they will in terms of League Play. To say that it just isn't profitable enough would be a huge mistake imho. Some people who spend nothing on magic now would be far more inclined to buy into leagues where they get bang for their buck than they are now.
I went and bought some Royal Assassins from mtgotraders (20 cents each) and put this idea to the test. I mean the assassins + decoys. Icy Manipulators, Goldmeadow Harriors, Dauthi Trappers, plus some mass removal and graveyard recurrsion to make things a bit more interesting. I ran into combo (though 2 were creature combo and 1 was old affinity Mycosynth Golems and Planar Portals to get out Platinum Angels and Darksteel Collosus which is just a "good game".) in 4 out of 5 games. Go figure. Anyway it does ok if you can draw into enough mana to cover the expense of the tappers and other things you need to do to get the "engine" working.
I disagree , I like alot more players was a league player , now i play drafts since there are no leagues and i crack alot more boosters then i did
when leagues are back , i will crack less boosters , alot less
i play 1 -2 leagues a month (about 9 boosters each if i remeber ) now i draft every day and its 3 boosters a day, so its about 100 boosters i crack VS 18
i know alot of players would switch to leagues as soon as they are up , but its not gonna happen since the Wotc know they will lose money..
but it also punishes you too. The difference is you get to control it. Just as Rishadan Port is a kind of double punishment. Strip mine is not a game ender however. It merely makes life difficult. Wasteland is also a game annoyance but only takes out the most essential of your lands :p. Also think of this fun fact: Wasteland kills Stripmine :D
The fabled reserve list. Is that the same list that had the original dual lands on it? I seem to recall the promise not to reprint a lot of things that have since seen reprints or remakes. Not that I am not grateful for those as I no longer have a physical collection to speak of. :D
Hi everybody,
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type of making money. Do you know a person
may earn up to 3% a per day through investments without limitations in sums ?
I mean that even having US$1.000,00 one can earn the same amount in a month !
If anyone is interested welcome to my blog www.theinvestblog.com .
Id rather sell my limbs. My guitars are like children. They would feel abandoned. No I am happy to worry a little to avoid that drama.
i remember when this was restricted in type 1
the card was such a beast, so good that my erhnam geddon deck was able to take down type 1 tournys with absolutely no power.
ah thx guess i had a mental lapse there
I guess the one that popped into my head first was Lightning Greaves. Then your assassin becomes a true Assassinate with legs (assuming he lives long enough to pass priority once).
I enjoyed the article and I agree with players not understanding what playing around different types of control means. The outcry at playing Dark Banishing on a Llanowar Elf should be roughly equal to that of playing a Stone Rain on the forest they just put into play (er...onto the battlefield) via Rampant Growth.
Is that Strip Mine takes out any land. Wasteland just deals with Non Basics.
"There are Mythics in M10. A M10 BoP is half as rare as a 10th BoP.
Duh."
As far as who sets prices cardbot or mtgotraders I have no idea, either way some company is at the source and mtgotraders has an intimate relationship with the other.
The idea that merely because mythics are in M10 that rare values go down that much is just silly. You could certianly argue that it reduces the value of all versions of the card or similar versions of the card but not just the one with the little m10 logo on it, the 10th birds version and the m10 version look nearly identical, in this kind of market the preference because of scarcity value might be 10% not 100%(when there is actually different art or border or the card is from it's original printing there can be big differences), that's what's obvious.. duh.
Wasteland punishes you for playing too many colors or a whacky mana base.
Strip Mine punishes you for playing magic. Really, played more than 1 times it screws so badly its hard to recover.
So can someone explain this one to me... unless I'm missing something Strip Mine and Wasteland are the same card? Why restrict one and not the other?
or blood.
"Speaking of special items... we have some MTGO only items coming up that will exist only on MTGO. Those being the Commander decks. What we'll have is essentially ultra-rare commons again for formats like Pauper. Cards like "
C'mon Ham, cards like what? Don't leave us hanging!