Ha ha, this guy is funny. Dude, if you can't handle a bunch of crap talkers on the net, you shouldn't write. And I'm not trying to bash you at all. It looks to me, and I'm not trying to offend you here, that this is your first article (or one of the first). It's ok if you don't get it perfect the first time. Just don't take the crap talking too personal, listen to guys like Alex becuase he's been writing for a long time and he knows what he is talking about, and just keep at it. And as for trying to incorperate something new in the format, you get an A for effort but don't you think that the first place new Pauper players look towards when looking to break cards is the banned/restricted list?
I mean, come on.... your typical Magic player may be a lot of different things but stupid is usually not one of them. If you're looking to truly "break" cards, Pauper is not the best place to do it. And if you're going to do it, maybe try looking someplace nobody else has looked. Go back through all those old commons and try to find some hidden gem... not the banned/restricted list.
So seriously, don't take offense to anyone, really listen to people's "trash-talking" because you might become a better writer if you do, and good job on trying man. We need as many Pauper players as we can get and as many creative minds working on new decks as we can. Storm/Affinity/MBC/Burn/Deep Dog get old.
hi it would be very nice if, during ur next draftwalkthrough u could post a written list of the cards in each pack under the the pictures of the pack, that makes it much easier to read the article if u r online with ur phone or somewhere with a slow connection
I never once said your article brought nothing new to the table. In fact, as I reread my comments, here are my main points:
"I think you provided us with a deck that has little testing under its belt and is really part one of a much longer article."
And my second post was a rebuttal to your article and assertions and also a critique of your stance and posting style.
As far as Deep Dog against Guardian, DD runs Looter il-Kor for evasive damage.
As far as threads discussing Gush, here's a pretty big one (that discusses application and legality issues):
Here you make an assertion that Gush is broken. Hardly, at least in Pauper. Again, we do not have the means in this format to abuse free spells like they can in Vintage, or the same engine that made Gush potent in Extended. Gush is powerful in Vintage thanks to a combination of free countermagic to protect a Tog, Goyf, Dryad, or Coatl (or combo of the 4)and the presence of dual lands (allowing your Islands to tap for Green) AND the presence of cheap artifact mana to help reduce the tempo loss of bouncing two lands- these elements, along with Fastbond (part of the Gush-Bond engine) do not exist in Pauper. These pieces help make Gush broken, as the card itself is just a draw spell.
In Extended, during its heyday, Gush was broken again, thanks to cards like Quirion Dryad and Tropical Island which would allow you to again, protect your beater and make it bigger for free (permanently). Gush was broken in Extended thanks to the cards that surrounded it- cards that do not exist in Pauper. Gush may be broken in these formats, but not here.
A question: Gush and Wild Mongrel were legal in Extended at the same time for a significant period of time. Were they ever played alongside each other to success in that format?
battlefield and exile si so stupid, i'd like to know what these guys were smkoking when they took this decision. If they really want to make this game playable for 10 years and younger, yes this is the right decision but if they claim this is an adult strategy game like chess, poker, etc this is ridicilous.
Alex, your main critique was that the article brought nothing new to the table. Again I encourage you, go to PDC and search "Gush" -- I did, and guess what there are 0 threads that have any discussion involving the applications of Gush in U/G.
So once again I can't understand how people are upset that I've discussed "nothing new". I'm still waiting for someone to point me to the giant article archive or forum thread detailing the merits of Gush in pauper U/G that I've missed but everyone else has apparently read. I just know it's not on PDC.
"If Guardian of Guildpact hits the table..." Ok, if Guardian of the Guildpact hits the table what is any "Deep Dog" list going to do about it? They all do the same thing, scoop or swing around it. Aside from something like Snakeform the deck just doesn't have access to "removal" for a Guardian. This is why I don't want to be tapping 4 mana for Springing Tiger in my main phase.
Is Gush+Psychatog better than Gush+Mongrel certainly! But we're playing Pauper. I mean we're discussing Guardian of the Guildpact. The article is exploring the applications of a broken card, Gush, by pairing it with its most natural partner in the format, Wild Mongrel.
Perhaps I'm being overly critical of the snake with wings, but it seems like a pretty weak card for UG.
Against WB, it dies easily to Zealous Persecution, and Stillmoon Calvalier first strikes it out. They also probably see it coming through either Sculler or Castigate.
Against GW, it does nothing to Oversoul of Dusk gives a -1/-1 counter to Kitchen Finks and maybe trades with a Dauntless Escort in one the better situations.
Against RW, it doesn't stop a (Battlegate Mimic),(Boros Swiftblade) and will probably eat a (Lightning Helix)
Against RB, it trades with most of the creatures they have, but most cost less than or equal to the Coatl. And it might die to Terminate or hit/run. You might get lucky and trade it with a Demigod of Revenge only to have it come back again next turn. Also I've been toying with Stillmoon Cavaliers in my RB deck and Winged Coatl doesn't stop a Cavalier.
Against RG, it is removal, but it is also a slow defensive card that is a 1 for 1 trade against a deck that can do crazy things with Bloodbraid Elf.
In my humble opinion UG decks should be fast and aggressive focusing on pushing damage through cards like Shorecrasher Mimic. At least Snakeform can be used aggressively and replaces itself, while Winged Coatl is just too defensive for my taste. Maybe I'm missing something though.
Why would you play Winged Coatl over Snakeform in Kaleidoscope? Or if you play both, does a UG deck really want to be slowed down with 4 Snakeform and 4 Winged Coatl?
Thanks for suggesting where I went wrong in the Draft. Agony Warp over Rhox Charger put me in three colors, but I didn't follow it in missing the Sharding Sphinx. I really felt bad about picking Blightning at the time, and I wouldn't have touched Tidehollow Sculler had I not planned on splashing White. This would have also led me away from the Phoenix as well. Thanks again, and hopefully you will enjoy Bandwagon VI
First of all, when you write and people critique you, you shouldn't call them haters- it makes you look petty. As someone who has written quite a bit about Pauper, you have to prepare to be criticized. I am not saying that you aren't, but calling people "haters" is not an endearing quality.
Now, for the Deep Dog discussion: While you may be right the Gush got very little play time in the deep Dog thread (did you ever think that was because people tried it and hated it?), there were other threads (buried now so I can't find them easily) that discussed the applications of both Gush and Daze in Pauper. Please bear in mind that any UG aggro-control deck is going to get arguments abut deep Dog since that is still the exemplar for all Pauper UG Aggro-Control decks. The fact that this deck shares numerous common elements with the aforementioned Deep Dog makes it easy (and correct) for people top compare the two.
You rattle off a number of cards that helped to make Wild Mongrel Playable in standard, Block and Extended. Wild Mongrel did not make this cards good...rather these cards made Wild Mongrel playable. Mongrel is an engine disguised as a beater. If it were not for cards like Circular Logic (really, all others are just gravy), Mongrel probably would not have seen as much play as an engine (even in the RG decks of the day, it helped to turn on Fiery Temper and Violent Eruption). In Pauper, the card you engine out is mostly Basking Rootwalla...which is not as a scary as say, a 4/4 Trampler on turn 3. Again, let me be clear: Wild Mongrel is an engine that helps Madness and Threshold decks function- it has rarely been the kill card. Without fantastic support cards like Arrogant Wurm, Roar of the Wurm, and others, Mongrel is closer to just a 2/2 than a Psychatog.
Now, in this deck, you are drawing a ton of cards to make Mongrel good. Great, I get that. However, you have absolutely no way to take care of anything once it hits the board besides taking it out in combat. So, what happens if they get a Guardian of the Guildpact down? What happens if you're playing against Affinity and they drop their hand on turn 2? Okay, you have a Counterspell for one of their dudes, but that is really about it. You have absolutely no way to affect the resolved board (battlefield?) besides combat (pre-board). In Pauper, this is a recipe for failure.
You make numerous references to Dr. Teeth in your article, and provide a sample list. Please search this link for Antoine Ruel's PT winning decklist from PT LA, 2005:
While not the most recent list, it is a stellar example of a deck. Notice the number of cards that can interact with your opponent's permanents and again, the presence of Circular Logic, a card that is the fuel for the Psychatog engine. Oh, and here's another thing about Tog- It won game sin one swing thanks to the second line of text- the one that talks about removing excess cards from the yard in order to deal even more damage. These two factors- cheap counters and the second deadly ability, helped to make Tog the Best Creature, for quite a while. And you are right, Gush + Teeth = +6 damage (possibly even +7 if you had another card in your graveyard), meaning you could swing for more than a third of their life total. Combine this with bounce and removal (a.k.a., ways to interact) and you could get in there. PT LA Extended was also a far faster, and more powerful format than Pauper (hell, any Extended is) and so the Metagames were drastically different. Your logic seems to come down to "well, 'Tog was awesome with Gush in other formats, so Gush must be awesome with Mongrel here."
Now, as for the deck you posted, I am almost certain that one of the cards the Cunning Wish would fetch would be something to make 'Tog unblockable (something you vaguely refer to in deft Gravity). Again, a deck like that could succeed because it was A) drawing significantly more (and better) cards than its opponents thanks to EOTFOFYL, and backing it up with strong (and sometimes surprise) counter magic. Each draw spell also helped to fuel the second ability on 'Tog.
I am sorry you felt that people have been attacking you, but you presented a relatively short piece with a smattering of support for your points, and a scarce amount of deck play options. I understand the desire to try new things, but if you are going to present them you should be prepared to back them up with evidence from the format you are writing about.
To be honest the M10 rule changes upset me. I like the change from play to cast, but the other three disappoint. No more mana burn can help with mtgo misclicks, but it seems rather unnecessary. The other 2 name changes just sound dumb.
Hey oh I enjoyed the podcast.
1. Dont cut it down I enjoy listening to an article while playing or surfing keep it as long as you guys like.
2. I really enjoyed the block stuff and I gotta say that while jund is redonck ther has got to be a way to beat it. My money says that next week we will see 5c control featuring ajani, nicol bolas and obelisk in the finals of the PT. There are so many tools and for me just getting into the format its like a wet dream trying to figure out the puzzle of the meta same as classic will be in 2 weeks.
3. Small nit pick but i put elspeth in the top 8 and 9th place of 2 classic pes back in december the week tempest was released, in a standstill build with humility and elspeth. Also weird factoid is that i have gotten elspeth's ultimate off in block once while in classic its at a whopping 5 times! I have played her equally in each format if not more in block. Classic is ripe for planeswalkers including elspeth, jace, and garruk to come sauntering in. You just need to figure out how you want to play them and then build your deck with them in mind.
I want to point out that in a UG Kaleidescope deck removal is very lacking. People will play a 3 cc spell that says: destroy target attacking creature. Now throw a body on that spell and you have Winged Coatl. Far from unplayable in my opinion.
So for all the haters -- Do a search for "Gush" on PDC forums and see what you come up with. Then look inside the "Deep Dog" thread that gets a hit on "Gush" and guess what you find the hit for?
Kehm wrote:
How much is Daze going for? If I could get a playset, I'd work on the deck.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 tix, if you look for it, but the going price is 9.5.
Although if you want to try your luck, buying two of the duel decks ($40) and dumping everything at bots can net you most of it back in tix. Not sure if many bots are still buying JvC now tho'. That's how I got my playset (+Gush) at least.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's right, my article "offers nothing new" because it is "Deep Dog"... well except for the fact that the article focuses on Gush -- is seeking to break Gush -- a card which hasn't even been discussed in the "Deep Dog" forum thread.
The truth is the deck "overlooks some key cards" like Springing Tiger because that "key card" requires you tap 4 mana in your main phase something this deck isn't such a huge fan of. The deck is looking to stick a Mongrel and draw so many cards that he's never "Just a 2/2".
Take a timeout.
Think about your statement: that drawing "a bunch of cards" to play Wild Mongrel who is then "Just a 2/2"
I mean who would want to play a deck that draws a bunch of cards for no real pay-off other than, oh say a 1/2. Something like:
4x Counterspell
4x Circular Logic
4x Fact or Fiction
3x Cunning Wish
4x Force Spike
4x Mana Leak
4x Mental Note
3x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Psychatog
Wild Mongrel just a 2/2 you heard it here first folks. Come back next week for Psychatog just a 1/2.
my build of the deck that i've been working on for sometime now is this:
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Llanowar Elves
3x Mulldrifter
3x Ninja of the Deep
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Counterspell
3x Daze
3x Deep Analysis
3x Gush
3x Mana Leak
2x Moment's Peace
3x Think Twice
10x Islands
8x Forest
i've won a lot of the 2-man ques. but never felt that it could do well in a PE, as it feels like it's missing that one thing to push it over the top so to say.
My vote went to the deck that I felt had some thought and creativity behind it. (one of the criteria for this contest) While I hate to speak poorly about any of the decks... build three seems to have built it self. It's a great build and is sure to win many a game (probably more games than most of the other builds), but all the card choices seem kind of obvious. It's your basic aggro deck tweaked for k-scope. I'll paraphrase Josh here... "simplicity of design". Simple designs win many games, but are rarely fun to play or play against.
Anyway, I had a hard time choosing betwixt five and seven. In the end deck five won me over, purley with its fun factor.
I do not pay attention to pauper anymore. When I saw this article, I saw a deck that to my mind looked new and exciting.
Am I wrong? More than likely yes. Madness and to a more certain point, Deep Dog were heavily played when I still played the format. I enjoyed the article a lot.
i forgot you pay to look at this site like some of those lame sites that make you go premium... oh wait you don't pay at all so shut up and don't read if you don't want to.
I suppose we were simply looking for different things in this contest then. Certainly there is space for creativity; I'd just like to see lists that are a tad more optimized than most of these.
Don't get me wrong; most of these look like they'd be a blast to play with; I just can't see most of them standing up to something tourney-quality, and I guess that's just where my expectations were.
I was thinking of trying gush/daze in a UB madness deck, but I think I'll save myself the expense. Still seems like it'd be better in UB than UG though.
What's new about this deck? Agree with all of the other posters, but I just don't think there's anything new or exciting here, nothing that others haven't tried before.
In a nutshell, if you posted this in a forum, you would get people replying with links to a UG deep dog thread and telling you to read it before posting something like that.
No offense but some of these articles seem more appropriate for a forum post. "Yo guys here's muh sealed deck, how could I have made it better?" "hey help me tweak my pauper deck?"
This is more directed at whoever approves articles and not the author, since I do appreciate the effort.
Ha ha, this guy is funny. Dude, if you can't handle a bunch of crap talkers on the net, you shouldn't write. And I'm not trying to bash you at all. It looks to me, and I'm not trying to offend you here, that this is your first article (or one of the first). It's ok if you don't get it perfect the first time. Just don't take the crap talking too personal, listen to guys like Alex becuase he's been writing for a long time and he knows what he is talking about, and just keep at it. And as for trying to incorperate something new in the format, you get an A for effort but don't you think that the first place new Pauper players look towards when looking to break cards is the banned/restricted list?
I mean, come on.... your typical Magic player may be a lot of different things but stupid is usually not one of them. If you're looking to truly "break" cards, Pauper is not the best place to do it. And if you're going to do it, maybe try looking someplace nobody else has looked. Go back through all those old commons and try to find some hidden gem... not the banned/restricted list.
So seriously, don't take offense to anyone, really listen to people's "trash-talking" because you might become a better writer if you do, and good job on trying man. We need as many Pauper players as we can get and as many creative minds working on new decks as we can. Storm/Affinity/MBC/Burn/Deep Dog get old.
hi it would be very nice if, during ur next draftwalkthrough u could post a written list of the cards in each pack under the the pictures of the pack, that makes it much easier to read the article if u r online with ur phone or somewhere with a slow connection
I never once said your article brought nothing new to the table. In fact, as I reread my comments, here are my main points:
"I think you provided us with a deck that has little testing under its belt and is really part one of a much longer article."
And my second post was a rebuttal to your article and assertions and also a critique of your stance and posting style.
As far as Deep Dog against Guardian, DD runs Looter il-Kor for evasive damage.
As far as threads discussing Gush, here's a pretty big one (that discusses application and legality issues):
http://forums.pdcmagic.com/viewtopic.php?t=2396&postdays=0&postorder=asc...
You are right, it is not in the Deep Dog thread.
Here you make an assertion that Gush is broken. Hardly, at least in Pauper. Again, we do not have the means in this format to abuse free spells like they can in Vintage, or the same engine that made Gush potent in Extended. Gush is powerful in Vintage thanks to a combination of free countermagic to protect a Tog, Goyf, Dryad, or Coatl (or combo of the 4)and the presence of dual lands (allowing your Islands to tap for Green) AND the presence of cheap artifact mana to help reduce the tempo loss of bouncing two lands- these elements, along with Fastbond (part of the Gush-Bond engine) do not exist in Pauper. These pieces help make Gush broken, as the card itself is just a draw spell.
In Extended, during its heyday, Gush was broken again, thanks to cards like Quirion Dryad and Tropical Island which would allow you to again, protect your beater and make it bigger for free (permanently). Gush was broken in Extended thanks to the cards that surrounded it- cards that do not exist in Pauper. Gush may be broken in these formats, but not here.
A question: Gush and Wild Mongrel were legal in Extended at the same time for a significant period of time. Were they ever played alongside each other to success in that format?
-Alex
battlefield and exile si so stupid, i'd like to know what these guys were smkoking when they took this decision. If they really want to make this game playable for 10 years and younger, yes this is the right decision but if they claim this is an adult strategy game like chess, poker, etc this is ridicilous.
Alex, your main critique was that the article brought nothing new to the table. Again I encourage you, go to PDC and search "Gush" -- I did, and guess what there are 0 threads that have any discussion involving the applications of Gush in U/G.
So once again I can't understand how people are upset that I've discussed "nothing new". I'm still waiting for someone to point me to the giant article archive or forum thread detailing the merits of Gush in pauper U/G that I've missed but everyone else has apparently read. I just know it's not on PDC.
"If Guardian of Guildpact hits the table..." Ok, if Guardian of the Guildpact hits the table what is any "Deep Dog" list going to do about it? They all do the same thing, scoop or swing around it. Aside from something like Snakeform the deck just doesn't have access to "removal" for a Guardian. This is why I don't want to be tapping 4 mana for Springing Tiger in my main phase.
Is Gush+Psychatog better than Gush+Mongrel certainly! But we're playing Pauper. I mean we're discussing Guardian of the Guildpact. The article is exploring the applications of a broken card, Gush, by pairing it with its most natural partner in the format, Wild Mongrel.
Perhaps I'm being overly critical of the snake with wings, but it seems like a pretty weak card for UG.
Against WB, it dies easily to Zealous Persecution, and Stillmoon Calvalier first strikes it out. They also probably see it coming through either Sculler or Castigate.
Against GW, it does nothing to Oversoul of Dusk gives a -1/-1 counter to Kitchen Finks and maybe trades with a Dauntless Escort in one the better situations.
Against RW, it doesn't stop a (Battlegate Mimic),(Boros Swiftblade) and will probably eat a (Lightning Helix)
Against RB, it trades with most of the creatures they have, but most cost less than or equal to the Coatl. And it might die to Terminate or hit/run. You might get lucky and trade it with a Demigod of Revenge only to have it come back again next turn. Also I've been toying with Stillmoon Cavaliers in my RB deck and Winged Coatl doesn't stop a Cavalier.
Against RG, it is removal, but it is also a slow defensive card that is a 1 for 1 trade against a deck that can do crazy things with Bloodbraid Elf.
In my humble opinion UG decks should be fast and aggressive focusing on pushing damage through cards like Shorecrasher Mimic. At least Snakeform can be used aggressively and replaces itself, while Winged Coatl is just too defensive for my taste. Maybe I'm missing something though.
Why would you play Winged Coatl over Snakeform in Kaleidoscope? Or if you play both, does a UG deck really want to be slowed down with 4 Snakeform and 4 Winged Coatl?
Thanks for suggesting where I went wrong in the Draft. Agony Warp over Rhox Charger put me in three colors, but I didn't follow it in missing the Sharding Sphinx. I really felt bad about picking Blightning at the time, and I wouldn't have touched Tidehollow Sculler had I not planned on splashing White. This would have also led me away from the Phoenix as well. Thanks again, and hopefully you will enjoy Bandwagon VI
First of all, when you write and people critique you, you shouldn't call them haters- it makes you look petty. As someone who has written quite a bit about Pauper, you have to prepare to be criticized. I am not saying that you aren't, but calling people "haters" is not an endearing quality.
Now, for the Deep Dog discussion: While you may be right the Gush got very little play time in the deep Dog thread (did you ever think that was because people tried it and hated it?), there were other threads (buried now so I can't find them easily) that discussed the applications of both Gush and Daze in Pauper. Please bear in mind that any UG aggro-control deck is going to get arguments abut deep Dog since that is still the exemplar for all Pauper UG Aggro-Control decks. The fact that this deck shares numerous common elements with the aforementioned Deep Dog makes it easy (and correct) for people top compare the two.
You rattle off a number of cards that helped to make Wild Mongrel Playable in standard, Block and Extended. Wild Mongrel did not make this cards good...rather these cards made Wild Mongrel playable. Mongrel is an engine disguised as a beater. If it were not for cards like Circular Logic (really, all others are just gravy), Mongrel probably would not have seen as much play as an engine (even in the RG decks of the day, it helped to turn on Fiery Temper and Violent Eruption). In Pauper, the card you engine out is mostly Basking Rootwalla...which is not as a scary as say, a 4/4 Trampler on turn 3. Again, let me be clear: Wild Mongrel is an engine that helps Madness and Threshold decks function- it has rarely been the kill card. Without fantastic support cards like Arrogant Wurm, Roar of the Wurm, and others, Mongrel is closer to just a 2/2 than a Psychatog.
Now, in this deck, you are drawing a ton of cards to make Mongrel good. Great, I get that. However, you have absolutely no way to take care of anything once it hits the board besides taking it out in combat. So, what happens if they get a Guardian of the Guildpact down? What happens if you're playing against Affinity and they drop their hand on turn 2? Okay, you have a Counterspell for one of their dudes, but that is really about it. You have absolutely no way to affect the resolved board (battlefield?) besides combat (pre-board). In Pauper, this is a recipe for failure.
You make numerous references to Dr. Teeth in your article, and provide a sample list. Please search this link for Antoine Ruel's PT winning decklist from PT LA, 2005:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/ptla05/t8decks
While not the most recent list, it is a stellar example of a deck. Notice the number of cards that can interact with your opponent's permanents and again, the presence of Circular Logic, a card that is the fuel for the Psychatog engine. Oh, and here's another thing about Tog- It won game sin one swing thanks to the second line of text- the one that talks about removing excess cards from the yard in order to deal even more damage. These two factors- cheap counters and the second deadly ability, helped to make Tog the Best Creature, for quite a while. And you are right, Gush + Teeth = +6 damage (possibly even +7 if you had another card in your graveyard), meaning you could swing for more than a third of their life total. Combine this with bounce and removal (a.k.a., ways to interact) and you could get in there. PT LA Extended was also a far faster, and more powerful format than Pauper (hell, any Extended is) and so the Metagames were drastically different. Your logic seems to come down to "well, 'Tog was awesome with Gush in other formats, so Gush must be awesome with Mongrel here."
Now, as for the deck you posted, I am almost certain that one of the cards the Cunning Wish would fetch would be something to make 'Tog unblockable (something you vaguely refer to in deft Gravity). Again, a deck like that could succeed because it was A) drawing significantly more (and better) cards than its opponents thanks to EOTFOFYL, and backing it up with strong (and sometimes surprise) counter magic. Each draw spell also helped to fuel the second ability on 'Tog.
I am sorry you felt that people have been attacking you, but you presented a relatively short piece with a smattering of support for your points, and a scarce amount of deck play options. I understand the desire to try new things, but if you are going to present them you should be prepared to back them up with evidence from the format you are writing about.
-Alex, Hater #1
To be honest the M10 rule changes upset me. I like the change from play to cast, but the other three disappoint. No more mana burn can help with mtgo misclicks, but it seems rather unnecessary. The other 2 name changes just sound dumb.
Hey oh I enjoyed the podcast.
1. Dont cut it down I enjoy listening to an article while playing or surfing keep it as long as you guys like.
2. I really enjoyed the block stuff and I gotta say that while jund is redonck ther has got to be a way to beat it. My money says that next week we will see 5c control featuring ajani, nicol bolas and obelisk in the finals of the PT. There are so many tools and for me just getting into the format its like a wet dream trying to figure out the puzzle of the meta same as classic will be in 2 weeks.
3. Small nit pick but i put elspeth in the top 8 and 9th place of 2 classic pes back in december the week tempest was released, in a standstill build with humility and elspeth. Also weird factoid is that i have gotten elspeth's ultimate off in block once while in classic its at a whopping 5 times! I have played her equally in each format if not more in block. Classic is ripe for planeswalkers including elspeth, jace, and garruk to come sauntering in. You just need to figure out how you want to play them and then build your deck with them in mind.
Agreed.
Winged Coatl does not count as a creature in UG. It counts as removal. 4x of it should go into all UG decks. Definately.
LE
Appreciate the kind words.
I want to point out that in a UG Kaleidescope deck removal is very lacking. People will play a 3 cc spell that says: destroy target attacking creature. Now throw a body on that spell and you have Winged Coatl. Far from unplayable in my opinion.
See response below.
1) The deck isn't trying to be "Deep Dog" nor has the PDC "Deep Dog" thread discussed the implementation of Gush.
2) Drawing a bunch of cards makes Wild Mongrel quite good.
3) See: Psychatog.
So for all the haters -- Do a search for "Gush" on PDC forums and see what you come up with. Then look inside the "Deep Dog" thread that gets a hit on "Gush" and guess what you find the hit for?
Kehm wrote:
How much is Daze going for? If I could get a playset, I'd work on the deck.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 tix, if you look for it, but the going price is 9.5.
Although if you want to try your luck, buying two of the duel decks ($40) and dumping everything at bots can net you most of it back in tix. Not sure if many bots are still buying JvC now tho'. That's how I got my playset (+Gush) at least.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's right, my article "offers nothing new" because it is "Deep Dog"... well except for the fact that the article focuses on Gush -- is seeking to break Gush -- a card which hasn't even been discussed in the "Deep Dog" forum thread.
The truth is the deck "overlooks some key cards" like Springing Tiger because that "key card" requires you tap 4 mana in your main phase something this deck isn't such a huge fan of. The deck is looking to stick a Mongrel and draw so many cards that he's never "Just a 2/2".
Take a timeout.
Think about your statement: that drawing "a bunch of cards" to play Wild Mongrel who is then "Just a 2/2"
I mean who would want to play a deck that draws a bunch of cards for no real pay-off other than, oh say a 1/2. Something like:
4x Counterspell
4x Circular Logic
4x Fact or Fiction
3x Cunning Wish
4x Force Spike
4x Mana Leak
4x Mental Note
3x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Psychatog
Wild Mongrel just a 2/2 you heard it here first folks. Come back next week for Psychatog just a 1/2.
my build of the deck that i've been working on for sometime now is this:
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Llanowar Elves
3x Mulldrifter
3x Ninja of the Deep
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Counterspell
3x Daze
3x Deep Analysis
3x Gush
3x Mana Leak
2x Moment's Peace
3x Think Twice
10x Islands
8x Forest
i've won a lot of the 2-man ques. but never felt that it could do well in a PE, as it feels like it's missing that one thing to push it over the top so to say.
My vote went to the deck that I felt had some thought and creativity behind it. (one of the criteria for this contest) While I hate to speak poorly about any of the decks... build three seems to have built it self. It's a great build and is sure to win many a game (probably more games than most of the other builds), but all the card choices seem kind of obvious. It's your basic aggro deck tweaked for k-scope. I'll paraphrase Josh here... "simplicity of design". Simple designs win many games, but are rarely fun to play or play against.
Anyway, I had a hard time choosing betwixt five and seven. In the end deck five won me over, purley with its fun factor.
I do not pay attention to pauper anymore. When I saw this article, I saw a deck that to my mind looked new and exciting.
Am I wrong? More than likely yes. Madness and to a more certain point, Deep Dog were heavily played when I still played the format. I enjoyed the article a lot.
Is wizards making a pre con from this?
i forgot you pay to look at this site like some of those lame sites that make you go premium... oh wait you don't pay at all so shut up and don't read if you don't want to.
I suppose we were simply looking for different things in this contest then. Certainly there is space for creativity; I'd just like to see lists that are a tad more optimized than most of these.
Don't get me wrong; most of these look like they'd be a blast to play with; I just can't see most of them standing up to something tourney-quality, and I guess that's just where my expectations were.
The meat of the article is in this comment.
I was thinking of trying gush/daze in a UB madness deck, but I think I'll save myself the expense. Still seems like it'd be better in UB than UG though.
What's new about this deck? Agree with all of the other posters, but I just don't think there's anything new or exciting here, nothing that others haven't tried before.
In a nutshell, if you posted this in a forum, you would get people replying with links to a UG deep dog thread and telling you to read it before posting something like that.
No offense but some of these articles seem more appropriate for a forum post. "Yo guys here's muh sealed deck, how could I have made it better?" "hey help me tweak my pauper deck?"
This is more directed at whoever approves articles and not the author, since I do appreciate the effort.
While I'll welcome City of Traitors, Survival, PoP, and company -- Oath of Druids entering the format is not something I'm looking forward to.