Well, it isn't so much one person being sleazy, but the nature of the voting system. It's simple game theory. The result is always better when someone votes as many times as possible. If my opponent votes many times, I am better off if I do as well (I stay even instead of losing). If my opponent doesn't vote many times, I still have a better result by voting over and over (I win as oppose to have an even chance). So I don't blame the people for voting over and over. That's why it was needed to have safeguards against unsportsmanlike action
To whiffy, I had no idea i played a necro deck inthe top 8. I was under the impression you were playing straight gro since I never saw a ritual, necro , or tendrils till game three. That said I was very impressed by how lotus petals let you resolve spells despite wasteland and daze. ggs
I really enjoyed the deck and the fact that you tried to incorporate gush, but the other replys are right about leaving us too little when all is said and done. A little bit of match ups ie games would have probably quwelled these responses
urzas can wait its godamn turn. we have to deal with oath next and possibly something rediculos out of FTV exiled. then we can worry about the brokan things in urzas.
Oh another thing. The enchantment can be played numerous times (if you draw more than 1) for double or even triple lifelink on the zombies, without getting more zombies.
Necromancer's Covenant is the basis of the deck. Without it, you would not really have anything for the mirror weave.. you might have 1-2 zombies from the lich lord, however its still unlikely youd draw both a nemesis of reason, and mirror weave every game after you do have those zombies, then when you use mirror weave, Nemesis will probably just get killed and then mirror weave fizzles. Nemesis is already a heavy target, so its bound to die as soon as the opponents get the chance without adding mirror weave into the mix.
Deck #1 seems pretty versatile for a mill deck. Not only can you attack with the lifelink zombies Joshua mentioned.. but you can also finish milling or cause them to lose life with Lich Lord of Urn, which by himself can create a zombie and mill/cause life loss each turn once youve reached 6 mana. I would say the deck hardly wins via the mill, and usually by the zombies+Lich Lord. Everyone seems to be picking decks (especially #3) without the full understanding of what the other decks can do, it is sad that ppl see a common deck and be like "Yeah, I know that one, lets pick it cause it beat me a few times." or sumthing. Maybe if you have the cards try out some of the decks before actually voting, see how fun they are, what they can do, like Andy had to do for deck #8.
Anyways goodluck to everyone, I hope my thoughts has opened the closed minds of others.
Deck #1 seems really good except for Necromancer's Covenant I say replace that with Mirror Weave, and now you've got a board full of Nemesis of Reason ftw.
On the contrary, I would expect some creativity in such competitions. #3 is a deck that you can see any day played by anyone anywhere. You can come across it in the casual room as well as in your next Kaleidoscope 2man queue. Sure it can win games as well as tournaments even but is this what you're looking for in such a contest? My answer is no.
I must admit that I very much liked #6. That deck can go infinite in so many different ways. You can gain X life, deal X damage or get an X/X creature. That is something nice, creative and fun.
Oh and no, it isn't my deck in case you wonder. I do have one in there but it definately won't win as it is one of those "pretty lame" ones.
Congrats on the top 8. I think that your build for the sealed was very good. I was very confused about the draft though. I personally would have taken Rhox Charger and Jungle Shrine following the Dragon, but there was definately a good Grixis deck to be had. You should have just stuck to Grixis. There was absolutely no reason to play 5 colors with this deck. It's silly to splash for Esper Chram, Tidehollow Sculler, and the ability on the Pheonix. Some of your picks just made no sense, like Infest over Sharding Sphinx, Esper Charm over Blightning, Dregscape Zopmbie, Puppet Conjurer, or Creeper, Wretched Banquet over Glavedriver, and Pestilent Kathari over Parasitic Strix. You could have had a much more consistent and powerful deck than the one you ended up with.
That I can view the votes, I do have the means to detect suspicious voting activities. Any obvious attempts at cheating will be removed from the competition.
Prodigal Sorc wasnt really considered overpowered, afair (remember). It was just used in ports of std decks (mainly dragonstorm), which was (and is) ageinst the spirit of the format (to me anyway)...
Well,
I’m impressed by the initial deck that you constructed although my minimal adjustments would have to be why do you not like Nacatl Hunt Pride? I do understand your deck is very good for a sealed deck portion of the tournament and there are some mediocre cards you haven’t included although the one card I noted is extremely good in this format.
In regards to the Top 8 draft, what happened 2nd pick? You take a insane 1st pick then kinda glide off and immediately go Grixis when there is a Rhox Charger available to be taken? Jungle Shrine would’ve come right behind your pick and you would’ve been consistent as I haven’t seen the end result yet I would assume you didn’t win. Even if you were attempting Grixis there were some very sketchy picks as I am not to sure if you knew what you wanted to force and what to pass in this matter. ( falls down the stairs, while hitting head against the wall ) .... what were your intentions of what shard you were going? Just stay consistent and you will be much more successful in limited rather than trying to play the best cards and degrade your picks by helping your land base.
That isn't necessarily a guarantee. The thing to look for is a 'spike' in votes in a very short period of time: It is statistically unlikely that there would be an unprecedented surge in votes for any one candidate in a short space of time. Even if it was a given clan voting, you'd expect to see the votes spread out over time, especially if they truly originated all over the world.
The human spirit is a wonderful thing. We tend to pull together in a crisis, and love fairness as a concept.
However, that is tempered by our sense of risk and reward. 'Vote as much as you like, the safety is off' is pretty much an invitation for people to vote as much as they like without fear of retribution or recrimination. The risk is low, the reward is high, there is a strong incentive to reap the benefit of temptation. In addition, given that that is the case, some would abuse the system simply because they believe everyone else is abusing the system, or because the evidence suggests abuse is happening.
Never, ever trust in the human spirit when the outcome benefits one person over all others.
Well, it isn't so much one person being sleazy, but the nature of the voting system. It's simple game theory. The result is always better when someone votes as many times as possible. If my opponent votes many times, I am better off if I do as well (I stay even instead of losing). If my opponent doesn't vote many times, I still have a better result by voting over and over (I win as oppose to have an even chance). So I don't blame the people for voting over and over. That's why it was needed to have safeguards against unsportsmanlike action
Great article walkerdog, I am sorry to hear about your luck.
To whiffy, I had no idea i played a necro deck inthe top 8. I was under the impression you were playing straight gro since I never saw a ritual, necro , or tendrils till game three. That said I was very impressed by how lotus petals let you resolve spells despite wasteland and daze. ggs
I'll go for deck #10
This is something i would bring to a kaleidoscope tournament, although i'd sneak-in treetops anyway :P
And Survival. Don't forget about Survival!
I really enjoyed the deck and the fact that you tried to incorporate gush, but the other replys are right about leaving us too little when all is said and done. A little bit of match ups ie games would have probably quwelled these responses
urzas can wait its godamn turn. we have to deal with oath next and possibly something rediculos out of FTV exiled. then we can worry about the brokan things in urzas.
Most of the decks, if not all, are solid, thats why the made top 10.
Oh another thing. The enchantment can be played numerous times (if you draw more than 1) for double or even triple lifelink on the zombies, without getting more zombies.
Necromancer's Covenant is the basis of the deck. Without it, you would not really have anything for the mirror weave.. you might have 1-2 zombies from the lich lord, however its still unlikely youd draw both a nemesis of reason, and mirror weave every game after you do have those zombies, then when you use mirror weave, Nemesis will probably just get killed and then mirror weave fizzles. Nemesis is already a heavy target, so its bound to die as soon as the opponents get the chance without adding mirror weave into the mix.
Deck #1 seems pretty versatile for a mill deck. Not only can you attack with the lifelink zombies Joshua mentioned.. but you can also finish milling or cause them to lose life with Lich Lord of Urn, which by himself can create a zombie and mill/cause life loss each turn once youve reached 6 mana. I would say the deck hardly wins via the mill, and usually by the zombies+Lich Lord. Everyone seems to be picking decks (especially #3) without the full understanding of what the other decks can do, it is sad that ppl see a common deck and be like "Yeah, I know that one, lets pick it cause it beat me a few times." or sumthing. Maybe if you have the cards try out some of the decks before actually voting, see how fun they are, what they can do, like Andy had to do for deck #8.
Anyways goodluck to everyone, I hope my thoughts has opened the closed minds of others.
Deck #1 seems really good except for Necromancer's Covenant I say replace that with Mirror Weave, and now you've got a board full of Nemesis of Reason ftw.
deck 3 ftw!!!!
On the contrary, I would expect some creativity in such competitions. #3 is a deck that you can see any day played by anyone anywhere. You can come across it in the casual room as well as in your next Kaleidoscope 2man queue. Sure it can win games as well as tournaments even but is this what you're looking for in such a contest? My answer is no.
I must admit that I very much liked #6. That deck can go infinite in so many different ways. You can gain X life, deal X damage or get an X/X creature. That is something nice, creative and fun.
Oh and no, it isn't my deck in case you wonder. I do have one in there but it definately won't win as it is one of those "pretty lame" ones.
LE
Congrats on the top 8. I think that your build for the sealed was very good. I was very confused about the draft though. I personally would have taken Rhox Charger and Jungle Shrine following the Dragon, but there was definately a good Grixis deck to be had. You should have just stuck to Grixis. There was absolutely no reason to play 5 colors with this deck. It's silly to splash for Esper Chram, Tidehollow Sculler, and the ability on the Pheonix. Some of your picks just made no sense, like Infest over Sharding Sphinx, Esper Charm over Blightning, Dregscape Zopmbie, Puppet Conjurer, or Creeper, Wretched Banquet over Glavedriver, and Pestilent Kathari over Parasitic Strix. You could have had a much more consistent and powerful deck than the one you ended up with.
That I can view the votes, I do have the means to detect suspicious voting activities. Any obvious attempts at cheating will be removed from the competition.
The third build is by far the best list offered here... #10 is decent too, but most of the others seem pretty lame...
Far too many of these decks look cobbled together... And a number seem as though they could lose to some of the budget decks I've seen...
Not to be rude, but seriously, where are the good lists? Singleton Nicol Bolas is cute, but Omnibian? really?
I dunno; maybe I was just expecting something more mind-shatteringly awesome...
Deck 3 is solid that is my vote
Prodigal Sorc wasnt really considered overpowered, afair (remember). It was just used in ports of std decks (mainly dragonstorm), which was (and is) ageinst the spirit of the format (to me anyway)...
Well,
I’m impressed by the initial deck that you constructed although my minimal adjustments would have to be why do you not like Nacatl Hunt Pride? I do understand your deck is very good for a sealed deck portion of the tournament and there are some mediocre cards you haven’t included although the one card I noted is extremely good in this format.
In regards to the Top 8 draft, what happened 2nd pick? You take a insane 1st pick then kinda glide off and immediately go Grixis when there is a Rhox Charger available to be taken? Jungle Shrine would’ve come right behind your pick and you would’ve been consistent as I haven’t seen the end result yet I would assume you didn’t win. Even if you were attempting Grixis there were some very sketchy picks as I am not to sure if you knew what you wanted to force and what to pass in this matter. ( falls down the stairs, while hitting head against the wall ) .... what were your intentions of what shard you were going? Just stay consistent and you will be much more successful in limited rather than trying to play the best cards and degrade your picks by helping your land base.
That isn't necessarily a guarantee. The thing to look for is a 'spike' in votes in a very short period of time: It is statistically unlikely that there would be an unprecedented surge in votes for any one candidate in a short space of time. Even if it was a given clan voting, you'd expect to see the votes spread out over time, especially if they truly originated all over the world.
The human spirit is a wonderful thing. We tend to pull together in a crisis, and love fairness as a concept.
However, that is tempered by our sense of risk and reward. 'Vote as much as you like, the safety is off' is pretty much an invitation for people to vote as much as they like without fear of retribution or recrimination. The risk is low, the reward is high, there is a strong incentive to reap the benefit of temptation. In addition, given that that is the case, some would abuse the system simply because they believe everyone else is abusing the system, or because the evidence suggests abuse is happening.
Never, ever trust in the human spirit when the outcome benefits one person over all others.
SpikeBoy said more then I could of thought of to say. A few friends of mine have tried decks with the Saviors hand mechanic without much success.
Clearly the only true no-budget Pauper deck is that full foil, Unhinged lands and all!
When I created this poll, I locked down IPs. The ip addresses I am seeing for that deck are coming from multiple parts of the globe.
I am thinking everything seems legit with it.
-4 Careful Study
+4 Looter il-Kor