Yes, that is indeed a factor. It's not that I'm against strong tribes (After all, I have 'Human' as one of my current lockouts), but I'm against the *Impossibility* of playing smaller tribes.
Differences between us and european stuff/keyboards possible here ?
The only F-keys I use is F8 and F4 (and F3 to annul F8), and F2 for "ok".
In my world F8 yields to all but choices (take 5 damage or let opp draw 3 cards ?(that sort of mtg-choices)). F8 also lets you block and attack.
F8 can be pressed whenever, F4 cannot be pressed whenever, you have to have prio in order to press F4 and have it work, if you press F4 when not having prio it doesnt "take", but pressing F8 takes whenever it is pressed.
F6 I have no idea what does, never used it.
F7/F5 is about some stuff that even friends of mine have told me about, but all I remember is that I wanst particularly impressed and forgot what they did =).
No F6 yields to all. F4 yields until an action occurs (But it breaks to make you click for blockers whether or not you have any legal ones just like F6.) F8 is really great for multiplayer where rounds of turns can take a really long time and involve LOTS of OKs if you don't tap out and yield to the fact that you can no longer do anything. IE: F8 might be bad play from a pro point of view You should always be able to bluff that you can respond even when it isn't possible... But usually it is more expedient to just pass and let others take their turns.
By the way, how do you acquire and upload these videos? I stopped doing it when YouTube was having constant problems with my Camtasia videos, that always ended stuck in uploading. Have they fixed that?
Google tells me it's a recurring message from Castlevania II (with "curse" in place of "duel"). Also referenced in the name of an album and song from American melodic death metal band The Black Dahlia Murder. That's a great band name.
EDIT: oops, I apologize I did not see the reply button...
thewoof2: I'm not entirely sure what wotc wants to do. if they want to come up with simplified version of magic in a digital form that could allow new players to become professionals. so they would create a different esports scene without paper cards and such...
I hope this won't ruin magic as we know it. I hope that they won't touch the very nature of the game.
F8 never yields a possibility to respond. Only when you can't do anything legal does it work and it still sometimes breaks with convoke and 0 cost spells. But you're right, there was no reason to suspect you didn't know the functionality until you spoke up about it.
It is illegal to intentionally try to time out your opponent's clock with excessive triggers. But proving it is not an easy task and since internet connection COULD be a factor, they took the easy way out on this one. Too bad, I prefer them to punish the wrong doers but as I said it is not an easy task to prove. (You need to document time left when this started and that means a screen cap likely. And you need all the other pertinent data.) That said they could have followed up more carefully.
I never made that argument. All I was doing was lamenting the fact that you didn't know how to auto-yield and that the program doesn't teach that to you.
What I said is that if stalling is not illegal, then what were they supposed to do? Did your opponent play unsporting? Yes, I agree to that. But if they're not going to punish it or make it illegal then what they told you is the only thing they probably could tell you.
I'm not arguing that they're right to do nothing about it or that I side with them. I feel their response to you was rude because it feels like they ignored your actual complaint. Sadly, this is their modis operandi.
You know what, the argument that a person doesn't know how to auto-yield is a 0 argument. Why ? Because...
No argumentation regarding this can ever include a necessity to use F8 (can be annulled with F3). This because F8 in reality is a negative thing for the person using it, (you give up something, the possibility to respond).
Im not there yet, i need further point to prove you wrong, and here it is, and this is also valid for lots of paper discussions (about other things);
You can never lay it on a player to expect him to know that nothing of importance can/is about to happen (no matter what board/game situation) - and thus expecting him to know when to F8 is an unreasonable expectation! Interactions between cards, cards that work out of graveyard, card(s) in hand (that very often is land in the late stages of a game), but most important of all; you cannot expect a player to know the cards that are in a set, and what they do. MtG cards have had cards that work without mana, etc. And since you do not know what might happen you also do not know what response might become possible/good for your game, maybe that 0;ability; target creature gets trample ueot actually will have an impact.
And when you cannot require a player to use F8 to circumvent stalling then the onus is back on the mtgo management to punish stalling in such cases !
@Zlehtnob: I appreciate if you helped raise their awareness to this bug! It's funny how the Fuse cards work ok, but somehow the same layering wasn't built in for the other split cards. heh.
@Paul - If they were trying to keep the JuFF room "more fun", then I'm pretty sure they would banned Emrakul from it a long time ago. :)
I think the ORC could have at least asked if they knew how to auto-yield, then explained how to auto-yield so that wouldn't happen to them in the future. "Check your internet" should have come after explaining some in game functions.
What the opponent did was certainly shady and the client service response wasn't great, but I wouldn't spend so much time and energy dwelling on it either.
Well I'm not sure what they could have done for you. I don't think what your opponent did was illegal (and if it is, then you got a raw deal).
Stalling on mtgo and stalling in real life are different because you don't share a clock on magic online. In theory you don't lose anything if your opponent does nothing or takes actions that amount to nothing. It sucks that you didn't know how to auto-yield to his actions, and it sucks even more that mtgo doesn't show you how to do that when you start playing.
If opponent did nothing illegal per their terms of service/rules then the only thing they could tell you is to check your internet.
And to give more info on one of the reports I sent them I can say this;
It was regarding an opponent that re-equipped an equipment he had over and over again between the various creatures he had on the battlefield.
The equip cost wasnt 0, it was 1 or 2, we both had lots of lands/mana on the table, and it was late game3 of a match I was winning, but I was low on time. I was new at mtgo, I hadnt figured out the F-buttons yet, I pressed the ok-button on the screen whenever I needed to. The opponent discovered this and started his re-equip marathon many turns before my low powered flier would finish the game.
As an estimate Id say he did between 25 to 40 re-equips the last 5-6 turns. (We know what would happen if he did this at a GP/PT or LGS tournament.)
I lost and wrote this to wotc, and got the reply to look at my internet connection. Nothing more, nothing less.
My view of sportsmanship in mtg took a huge beating this day, Id even say that it was reduced to ashes.
Yes I think that is a deplorable answer and when I heard ORCS giving that canned response in chat I'd chide them in pm that it was not an appropriate way to handle that sort of complaint. But like MANY IT complaints its the standard "Did you check to make sure your computer is on? Plugged in? Can you see?" etc. Not very productive but useful in sorting out the truly clueless from the just needs a little nudge.
But that is not the sort of bugs I am mostly talking about. Most of the bugs I report have to do with card malfunctions not client/server issues.
It's always surprised me no one has busted that card yet
Your rules section makes me want to go build a heartless constructs deck again.
Yes, that is indeed a factor. It's not that I'm against strong tribes (After all, I have 'Human' as one of my current lockouts), but I'm against the *Impossibility* of playing smaller tribes.
Might be a difference in keyboards yes.
Differences between us and european stuff/keyboards possible here ?
The only F-keys I use is F8 and F4 (and F3 to annul F8), and F2 for "ok".
In my world F8 yields to all but choices (take 5 damage or let opp draw 3 cards ?(that sort of mtg-choices)). F8 also lets you block and attack.
F8 can be pressed whenever, F4 cannot be pressed whenever, you have to have prio in order to press F4 and have it work, if you press F4 when not having prio it doesnt "take", but pressing F8 takes whenever it is pressed.
F6 I have no idea what does, never used it.
F7/F5 is about some stuff that even friends of mine have told me about, but all I remember is that I wanst particularly impressed and forgot what they did =).
No F6 yields to all. F4 yields until an action occurs (But it breaks to make you click for blockers whether or not you have any legal ones just like F6.) F8 is really great for multiplayer where rounds of turns can take a really long time and involve LOTS of OKs if you don't tap out and yield to the fact that you can no longer do anything. IE: F8 might be bad play from a pro point of view You should always be able to bluff that you can respond even when it isn't possible... But usually it is more expedient to just pass and let others take their turns.
F8 - yield to all ?
F4 - do nothing rest of turn unless opponent does something ?
I haven't been having problems with that, so probably! I do record them straight to avi, though, so maybe that's better?
Touché, I took it from Castlevania. That series was probably my actual introduction to vampires way back in the day.
It also shows up in the roguelike Binding of Isaac.
By the way, how do you acquire and upload these videos? I stopped doing it when YouTube was having constant problems with my Camtasia videos, that always ended stuck in uploading. Have they fixed that?
Google tells me it's a recurring message from Castlevania II (with "curse" in place of "duel"). Also referenced in the name of an album and song from American melodic death metal band The Black Dahlia Murder. That's a great band name.
EDIT: oops, I apologize I did not see the reply button...
thewoof2: I'm not entirely sure what wotc wants to do. if they want to come up with simplified version of magic in a digital form that could allow new players to become professionals. so they would create a different esports scene without paper cards and such...
I hope this won't ruin magic as we know it. I hope that they won't touch the very nature of the game.
I was just joking about that but hey Banned cards by room...what an interesting idea. :D
F8 never yields a possibility to respond. Only when you can't do anything legal does it work and it still sometimes breaks with convoke and 0 cost spells. But you're right, there was no reason to suspect you didn't know the functionality until you spoke up about it.
It is illegal to intentionally try to time out your opponent's clock with excessive triggers. But proving it is not an easy task and since internet connection COULD be a factor, they took the easy way out on this one. Too bad, I prefer them to punish the wrong doers but as I said it is not an easy task to prove. (You need to document time left when this started and that means a screen cap likely. And you need all the other pertinent data.) That said they could have followed up more carefully.
I never made that argument. All I was doing was lamenting the fact that you didn't know how to auto-yield and that the program doesn't teach that to you.
What I said is that if stalling is not illegal, then what were they supposed to do? Did your opponent play unsporting? Yes, I agree to that. But if they're not going to punish it or make it illegal then what they told you is the only thing they probably could tell you.
I'm not arguing that they're right to do nothing about it or that I side with them. I feel their response to you was rude because it feels like they ignored your actual complaint. Sadly, this is their modis operandi.
Now it's apparently against their Code of Conduct: (http://company.wizards.com/policies/web/conduct) but I don't know if that applies to Magic Online. If it does, then you got a raw deal.
You know what, the argument that a person doesn't know how to auto-yield is a 0 argument. Why ? Because...
No argumentation regarding this can ever include a necessity to use F8 (can be annulled with F3). This because F8 in reality is a negative thing for the person using it, (you give up something, the possibility to respond).
Im not there yet, i need further point to prove you wrong, and here it is, and this is also valid for lots of paper discussions (about other things);
You can never lay it on a player to expect him to know that nothing of importance can/is about to happen (no matter what board/game situation) - and thus expecting him to know when to F8 is an unreasonable expectation! Interactions between cards, cards that work out of graveyard, card(s) in hand (that very often is land in the late stages of a game), but most important of all; you cannot expect a player to know the cards that are in a set, and what they do. MtG cards have had cards that work without mana, etc. And since you do not know what might happen you also do not know what response might become possible/good for your game, maybe that 0;ability; target creature gets trample ueot actually will have an impact.
And when you cannot require a player to use F8 to circumvent stalling then the onus is back on the mtgo management to punish stalling in such cases !
@Zlehtnob: I appreciate if you helped raise their awareness to this bug! It's funny how the Fuse cards work ok, but somehow the same layering wasn't built in for the other split cards. heh.
@Paul - If they were trying to keep the JuFF room "more fun", then I'm pretty sure they would banned Emrakul from it a long time ago. :)
I think the ORC could have at least asked if they knew how to auto-yield, then explained how to auto-yield so that wouldn't happen to them in the future. "Check your internet" should have come after explaining some in game functions.
What the opponent did was certainly shady and the client service response wasn't great, but I wouldn't spend so much time and energy dwelling on it either.
Well I'm not sure what they could have done for you. I don't think what your opponent did was illegal (and if it is, then you got a raw deal).
Stalling on mtgo and stalling in real life are different because you don't share a clock on magic online. In theory you don't lose anything if your opponent does nothing or takes actions that amount to nothing. It sucks that you didn't know how to auto-yield to his actions, and it sucks even more that mtgo doesn't show you how to do that when you start playing.
If opponent did nothing illegal per their terms of service/rules then the only thing they could tell you is to check your internet.
Thanks.
And to give more info on one of the reports I sent them I can say this;
It was regarding an opponent that re-equipped an equipment he had over and over again between the various creatures he had on the battlefield.
The equip cost wasnt 0, it was 1 or 2, we both had lots of lands/mana on the table, and it was late game3 of a match I was winning, but I was low on time. I was new at mtgo, I hadnt figured out the F-buttons yet, I pressed the ok-button on the screen whenever I needed to. The opponent discovered this and started his re-equip marathon many turns before my low powered flier would finish the game.
As an estimate Id say he did between 25 to 40 re-equips the last 5-6 turns. (We know what would happen if he did this at a GP/PT or LGS tournament.)
I lost and wrote this to wotc, and got the reply to look at my internet connection. Nothing more, nothing less.
My view of sportsmanship in mtg took a huge beating this day, Id even say that it was reduced to ashes.
I totally missed the reference. Is there a particular source?
Yes I think that is a deplorable answer and when I heard ORCS giving that canned response in chat I'd chide them in pm that it was not an appropriate way to handle that sort of complaint. But like MANY IT complaints its the standard "Did you check to make sure your computer is on? Plugged in? Can you see?" etc. Not very productive but useful in sorting out the truly clueless from the just needs a little nudge.
But that is not the sort of bugs I am mostly talking about. Most of the bugs I report have to do with card malfunctions not client/server issues.
Well, my experience with reports is that wotc wants me to look at my internet connection or check my local internet supplier.