This is quite possibly the most insane thing I have ever heard.
Winning without Brave the Elements doesn't happen. I have piloted this deck to quite a few 3-1's, 4-0's, and 2-man wins, and Brave the elements is THE BEST CARD in the deck.
Once you have DoJ in the main, you aren't playing White Weenie anymore, you are playing control.
There are some really strong words in the comments against speculating here. Speculating and hoarding are two results of a free market. The singles market has been created by the presence of people willing to trade cards for cards/tix. The stores/bots have created a tremendous amount of liquidity in the system, where card prices can actually get down to .10 or .15. The alternative is a barter system or maybe paying to get 2 or 3 of a card for 1 tix.
What this boils down to is that if you enjoy the market for magic singles, you're going to have to put up with some speculation, and that means that sometimes a particular card will be unavailable due to speculation.
The best speculator of all time is Warren Buffet, just saying.
Yeah, the skred is my 9th removal and it also raises the red count for martyr. An additional counter would be definitely stronger against control. Skred is terrible against MBCu, I usually just hold on to it as a weak "counter" to their tendrils in the first game. I believe it depends on the meta. Right now I think there's more WW / goblins out there than MBCu, so it stays skred. If there's more control then it should become a counter and the martyrs would leave the MD.
Wow all this furor over a silly card. Really I got my allies all together as Blau did but not because I expected them to hit multiticket prices but because I wanted to play with them. Sometimes I don't get that chance but thankfully Zendikar was massively drafted and the rares for the most part were cheap for a long time. That WWK would make some of them better was a fairly safe bet.
I don't care that people hoard. In a free trade environment that is what happens. People try to corner a market or to make a dime off someone else's sweat. If you speculate/hoard you take a risk of being wrong and if you aren't then you reap the rewards. What I don't like is price inflation based on speculation about commonality. I mean Oath was $30 before one pack of Exodus was cracked online...That ticked me off despite the fact that if I had Exodus and drafted it I might have made a small bundle on the speculative price jump. I understand the reason for it, but it (irrationally) still irks me.
Anyway it is all rather moot. Until player to player trading is fixed/enhanced to the point where casual trading starts happening again regularly you will have to rely on the bots or drafting to get your cards and as such are at their mercy to some extent.
What the hell is wrong with you people? Do you genuinely think violence and/or illegal activities are the appropriate responses to someone buying cards for a card game? If your love for this game is more valuable than the well-being of another human (who, it should be noted, is operating within the rules), then you really need to re-evaluate your priorities.
you shoud never hoard a card that's going to be played in one deck only.
furthermore, there's a problem wih hoarding
Following the supply/demand model, you'll need to wait unitl the supply runs out to increase the demand for your product.
If kabira does go up, the many players will advertise their kabira evangels on the MB.
You'll need to buy all of those again to ensure price stability or increase.
if 4 people offer them for 1, the fifth will offer them for 3x2 and so on.
The supply is too big for a card like this to hoard, and oh yeah it's in the same block...
MTGO Traders doesn't go to everyone selling on MTGO and buy up stuff they know will be worth more later, then jack up the price. It's the morons who are willing to sell a rare for 5 cents to a bot that are the problem.
Take a look at the two T16 Legacy events (SCG) in the past month. Anything on that list that is on MTGO should be checked for price. If it's low online (say sub $1) it will probably go up when Legacy comes online. I'm suggesting it only for the purpose of getting your playset cheap before prices go up.
Any idea how many of any given rare is out there? All we would need is an approximate number of drafts played for a given set and we could estimate the number of packs opened and then number of each rare.
Let's say they manage to fire off a draft every 5 minutes for 4 months. Adding a bunch of margin that's about 1,000,000 packs. Any given rare has a 1/53 chance (ignoring the mythic effect). Let's round to 1/50. This means every 50 packs nets you a given rare (give or take). This means about 20,000 of each rare exists on MTGO. Let's say you "horde" 100 rares... this is 0.5% of the total supply.
But then you need to factor in demand and number of users. 300,000 users total, 4,000 active at any given time... so let's be naive and say 80,000 users actively play (which is definitely an overestimate). If enough people hoarded it can clearly have a serious effect on the game.
I know it's really rough math, but I think I biased things against my proposition - that hoarding even 100 cards has a significant effect!
How is the dude with 80 Evangels evil but MTGO Traders sitting on 16 Earthquakes perfectly ok? Isn't it the same damn thing? I can guarantee you Traders didn't pay out 4.25 for any of those. I bought my set of Earthquakes for 0.40 each and I'm kicking myself for not buying more. If I had I might be able to afford a Baneslayer!
Can it really be that lucky when one decidedly put that card that they hoped to draw at some point in the deck.
Which is why I laugh about Merfolk Wayfinder and a friend of mine thinking this card is patently bad. No I understand how he might say that this card puts the best cards of your deck on the bottom your library. I think that although this may be true it may also not be true, and it might provide for you a card advantage, and possibly a land advantage depending on when it is cast and what round ect. These cards when not revealed are all sitting on a batch of quantum foam. So since these events are unknown we always have a cat that is both dead and alive.
Umm, I didn't know that Evangels ever went below $0.10? That's what I got em for.
@The rest of you:
I see something cheap I expect to get more valuable, I buy it so I can profit. I'm not going to sit on it, just wait till it is more valuable because it is more useful and then sell. I don't see what is immoral about this. It's not like anyone really wants them for any other reason right now, that's why they're cheap. They'd get more valuable even if I didn't buy them.
I see a difference between speculating and hoarding, and fail to see how this is the latter.
im just very very convicted in my beliefs...and while i may have used a little hyperbole (this guy doesnt really matter enough to me for me to care whether he lives or dies) most are echoing my sentiments about hoarders sucking a big one. Now I understand if you think a card is about to be hot like recently say living end was .12 cents. Buy a dollars worth of it. That gives you 8 of them so you get a playset and sell the other four and get a 400% return. There is no need to be a bastard and buy 80 of a card. Not too mention that even with the new allies coming out, it will probably still be mostly casual.
I think speculation-buying is great if you run out and nab 4x of some dirt cheap rare (like Evangel, or even Turntimber). That's common sense and smart buying.
Going out and buying up everything in sight is a morally reprehensible action. While this is just a card game, it's the same mentality that would buy up something like fuel during a crisis. The same as selling off stock before you know something "bad" is going to happen.
It's not like that @$$hat is going to use 80 copies of any given card.
Rule of thumb - if you like casual MTGO, just buy 4x of every 10/15 cent rare from the start, that way you can play any causal deck you like and will not get caught by situations like this should one become a tourney card.
speculators are douche bags, they are pretty much other than scammers the lowest life forms on MTGO. God this whole thing pisses me off to know end. Why completely rape everybody's sotck of one card? Are you so greedy that you couldnt even leave say two playsets for the possible new player who may want to build an ally deck? I seriously hope you get involved in a fatal car wreck on your way home. That way even if we never get the Evangels back since youre dead, you don't profit from them either. And yes I'm serious and no I won't feel bad if this actually happens, so dont waste time posting about it. And im sure this will become a recipe from josh and thats ok with me. I just had to get this off my chest.
This is quite possibly the most insane thing I have ever heard.
Winning without Brave the Elements doesn't happen. I have piloted this deck to quite a few 3-1's, 4-0's, and 2-man wins, and Brave the elements is THE BEST CARD in the deck.
Once you have DoJ in the main, you aren't playing White Weenie anymore, you are playing control.
There are some really strong words in the comments against speculating here. Speculating and hoarding are two results of a free market. The singles market has been created by the presence of people willing to trade cards for cards/tix. The stores/bots have created a tremendous amount of liquidity in the system, where card prices can actually get down to .10 or .15. The alternative is a barter system or maybe paying to get 2 or 3 of a card for 1 tix.
What this boils down to is that if you enjoy the market for magic singles, you're going to have to put up with some speculation, and that means that sometimes a particular card will be unavailable due to speculation.
The best speculator of all time is Warren Buffet, just saying.
Ahahaha I like the totally serious sentiments about *killing* a human being over hoarding 80 of a Magic card. Perspective, anyone?
What is profoundly sad is that you didn't get the joke. :/fail
I find that profoundly sad and hope you'll grow past this one day.
But anyway, back to the topic, does hoarding 80 cards from a set still in print and heavily drafted even make a dent in its availability?
in my opinion violence tends to be an acceptable response to any problem...its worked for so far in life. And I'm in my 20's
Yeah, the skred is my 9th removal and it also raises the red count for martyr. An additional counter would be definitely stronger against control. Skred is terrible against MBCu, I usually just hold on to it as a weak "counter" to their tendrils in the first game. I believe it depends on the meta. Right now I think there's more WW / goblins out there than MBCu, so it stays skred. If there's more control then it should become a counter and the martyrs would leave the MD.
Wow all this furor over a silly card. Really I got my allies all together as Blau did but not because I expected them to hit multiticket prices but because I wanted to play with them. Sometimes I don't get that chance but thankfully Zendikar was massively drafted and the rares for the most part were cheap for a long time. That WWK would make some of them better was a fairly safe bet.
I don't care that people hoard. In a free trade environment that is what happens. People try to corner a market or to make a dime off someone else's sweat. If you speculate/hoard you take a risk of being wrong and if you aren't then you reap the rewards. What I don't like is price inflation based on speculation about commonality. I mean Oath was $30 before one pack of Exodus was cracked online...That ticked me off despite the fact that if I had Exodus and drafted it I might have made a small bundle on the speculative price jump. I understand the reason for it, but it (irrationally) still irks me.
Anyway it is all rather moot. Until player to player trading is fixed/enhanced to the point where casual trading starts happening again regularly you will have to rely on the bots or drafting to get your cards and as such are at their mercy to some extent.
What the hell is wrong with you people? Do you genuinely think violence and/or illegal activities are the appropriate responses to someone buying cards for a card game? If your love for this game is more valuable than the well-being of another human (who, it should be noted, is operating within the rules), then you really need to re-evaluate your priorities.
you shoud never hoard a card that's going to be played in one deck only.
furthermore, there's a problem wih hoarding
Following the supply/demand model, you'll need to wait unitl the supply runs out to increase the demand for your product.
If kabira does go up, the many players will advertise their kabira evangels on the MB.
You'll need to buy all of those again to ensure price stability or increase.
if 4 people offer them for 1, the fifth will offer them for 3x2 and so on.
The supply is too big for a card like this to hoard, and oh yeah it's in the same block...
MTGO Traders doesn't go to everyone selling on MTGO and buy up stuff they know will be worth more later, then jack up the price. It's the morons who are willing to sell a rare for 5 cents to a bot that are the problem.
Take a look at the two T16 Legacy events (SCG) in the past month. Anything on that list that is on MTGO should be checked for price. If it's low online (say sub $1) it will probably go up when Legacy comes online. I'm suggesting it only for the purpose of getting your playset cheap before prices go up.
Any idea how many of any given rare is out there? All we would need is an approximate number of drafts played for a given set and we could estimate the number of packs opened and then number of each rare.
Let's say they manage to fire off a draft every 5 minutes for 4 months. Adding a bunch of margin that's about 1,000,000 packs. Any given rare has a 1/53 chance (ignoring the mythic effect). Let's round to 1/50. This means every 50 packs nets you a given rare (give or take). This means about 20,000 of each rare exists on MTGO. Let's say you "horde" 100 rares... this is 0.5% of the total supply.
But then you need to factor in demand and number of users. 300,000 users total, 4,000 active at any given time... so let's be naive and say 80,000 users actively play (which is definitely an overestimate). If enough people hoarded it can clearly have a serious effect on the game.
I know it's really rough math, but I think I biased things against my proposition - that hoarding even 100 cards has a significant effect!
Which do you believe those to be?
I mean, that's like trading in penny stocks but not buying in the 100,000s of shares.
Buying 80 doesn't seem so bad. There are sooooo many more out there.
How is the dude with 80 Evangels evil but MTGO Traders sitting on 16 Earthquakes perfectly ok? Isn't it the same damn thing? I can guarantee you Traders didn't pay out 4.25 for any of those. I bought my set of Earthquakes for 0.40 each and I'm kicking myself for not buying more. If I had I might be able to afford a Baneslayer!
Can it really be that lucky when one decidedly put that card that they hoped to draw at some point in the deck.
Which is why I laugh about Merfolk Wayfinder and a friend of mine thinking this card is patently bad. No I understand how he might say that this card puts the best cards of your deck on the bottom your library. I think that although this may be true it may also not be true, and it might provide for you a card advantage, and possibly a land advantage depending on when it is cast and what round ect. These cards when not revealed are all sitting on a batch of quantum foam. So since these events are unknown we always have a cat that is both dead and alive.
try forcing mono black
Umm, I didn't know that Evangels ever went below $0.10? That's what I got em for.
@The rest of you:
I see something cheap I expect to get more valuable, I buy it so I can profit. I'm not going to sit on it, just wait till it is more valuable because it is more useful and then sell. I don't see what is immoral about this. It's not like anyone really wants them for any other reason right now, that's why they're cheap. They'd get more valuable even if I didn't buy them.
I see a difference between speculating and hoarding, and fail to see how this is the latter.
Agreed 100%. We should all put our heads together, hack their accounts, find their addresses - and post them online!
im just very very convicted in my beliefs...and while i may have used a little hyperbole (this guy doesnt really matter enough to me for me to care whether he lives or dies) most are echoing my sentiments about hoarders sucking a big one. Now I understand if you think a card is about to be hot like recently say living end was .12 cents. Buy a dollars worth of it. That gives you 8 of them so you get a playset and sell the other four and get a 400% return. There is no need to be a bastard and buy 80 of a card. Not too mention that even with the new allies coming out, it will probably still be mostly casual.
A nice solid punch in the face knocking out a few teeth is what these people need ... but death? You must be a Christian or something...
On my previous note, now's the time to go out and buy 4x of all the cheap rares and uncommons that are staples in legacy before legacy comes online!
I think speculation-buying is great if you run out and nab 4x of some dirt cheap rare (like Evangel, or even Turntimber). That's common sense and smart buying.
Going out and buying up everything in sight is a morally reprehensible action. While this is just a card game, it's the same mentality that would buy up something like fuel during a crisis. The same as selling off stock before you know something "bad" is going to happen.
It's not like that @$$hat is going to use 80 copies of any given card.
Rule of thumb - if you like casual MTGO, just buy 4x of every 10/15 cent rare from the start, that way you can play any causal deck you like and will not get caught by situations like this should one become a tourney card.
speculators are douche bags, they are pretty much other than scammers the lowest life forms on MTGO. God this whole thing pisses me off to know end. Why completely rape everybody's sotck of one card? Are you so greedy that you couldnt even leave say two playsets for the possible new player who may want to build an ally deck? I seriously hope you get involved in a fatal car wreck on your way home. That way even if we never get the Evangels back since youre dead, you don't profit from them either. And yes I'm serious and no I won't feel bad if this actually happens, so dont waste time posting about it. And im sure this will become a recipe from josh and thats ok with me. I just had to get this off my chest.