Great Article, I know the 4 slot is already full, but did you test at all with Wort? I still haven't decided if its too slow.
I've been trying to move my Goblin deck to focus more around Empty the Warrens with Lotus Bloom and Rift Bolt. I'm going to try and replace the Shenanigans with the Gravepact as you suggest.
Woops, guess I should note that this change in the way Extended rotates has now resulted in Onslaught, Legions, and Scourge becoming legal in the Future Extended format.
The DCI has altered the way that the Extended format will rotate in the future. Invasion, Planeshift, Apocalypse (IPA), Odyssee, Torment, and Judgement (OTJ) will rotate out in October leaving Onslaught Block to join the current roster of Future Extended legal sets.
Originally, The DCI had intended to rotate IPA - OLS and have a rotation every few years rotating 3 blocks at a time but now they have opted for simplicity and a matching of the current Standard rotation schedule.
I don't think I jave ever seen an article on community like yours. It was a great article.
A person i know once wrote a psychology paper for college, and it was about the differences in communicating between real life and chat rooms. You're article focuses on online only, but is still very good.
I joined MTGO after trying the free trial. I got advice from you guys at this website, and i have gotten so much usefull info about card prices and strategy from you guys. Thanks.
I am a casual onlinr player,but i like to have a good deck. I am a former Paper magic player, who was quite sucsessfull at one tournament in particular.
WB has got to be the strongest deck of the three right i mean black is undeniable with a shriekmaw and a makeshift, and white gives you not only early game threats but white siege-gang commander, Cloudgoat ranger!. Blue is underpowered... no card draw and flyers are tight but tempo is better in my opinion.
Ack. I wrote this quite some time ago and I'm rather suprised to see it up now. For starters, some cards have changed in my perspective in their value.
The biggest change is Murmuring Bosk that I find from feedback from type 2 and extended in real life, is slightly less powerful than when I first felt because the not all decks need this versitility it provides at the expense of 1 life per activation and also the fact that it might just come into play tapped.
The second change in value would be Reveilark which is so much better than I could ever imagine.
A card that isn't mentioned but I feel is really good is Shared Animosity, which essentially makes any deck that runs creatures that share a type really hard to handle even with wrath effects when they start coming down as tokens.
Still, I value Vendillion Clique very highly in Singleton and my opinions regarding goblins have not changed. With everyone more informed than when I first wrote this, I think it would be of less value.
The cards I want to get from this set would be: Bitterblossom Vendillion Clique Goblins Reveilark Shared Animosity Murmuring Bosk Mutavault Scapeshift (cos it's difficult to get tron out in singleton) Leaf-Crowned Elder Mind Shatter Shard Volley
I def considered the Titan (Part of the reason I picked him is that he's pretty splashable). I probably should have just MD him since he was huge, but I did side him in game 2 each time.
As far as the comment below about the first deck being lucky to win a round, I disagree. I won my round without ever getting to drop Vigor or Tarpitcher. Mostly I just got a two-for-one or two, and the Growthed for the win.
Although I don't HATE the trawl, just don't want to have to pick it early. Pick 6+ in an aggroish deck, or just a deck needing card advantage, it is nice.
Your "alternate" draft was solid, and would have been better had I been cutting UW of course. I think that sort of illustrated the power of these packs. Part of the reason I drafted some of the slightly under-powered Green cards in Pack One was to cut green as heavily as possible, and by passing the Galepowder, I HOPEFULLY indicated to my opponent that he should maybe jump into white. I felt like my semi-cutting of Green was rewarded with some of the later gifts.
I did consider the Fear Goblin over Vigor, but I was already wanting to play Green (even though it didn't seem to be working out SUPER-well thus far), and I felt like the power-difference was just too large to not get him.
You're right about Rootgrapple, that was a HORRID pick by me, as I was still blinded by greedy images of a silly (yet some-how workable in my imagination) build that was BGr Faerie/Goblin aggro. I wasn't even drinking when I made these picks :/
"The other reason that this is true is because when the packs are strong you will get manafixing slightly later."
Yea, I've since had drafts with Growth that I didn't win, but usually it was because I did something dumb like chump blocked with my early guys, when I should have just taken damage, and sat on drawing into growth for a win, or when I didn't draft enough removal.
I agree about Shelldock. I was previously contemplating the splash for the Titan, and decided I didn't want it, then forgot to add it when I didn't splash for green. However, it really should have just been played in either build.
Pack 1: Galepowder Mage is sooo much better than Incremental Growth Pack 3: Goldmeadow Harrier over Tar Pitcher. You are passing Giant Harbringer in this pack, so your 'if the red starts flowing' reasoning seems flawed.
Pack 4: Streambed Aquitects is the best card in the pack, and with the white cards so far, a UW deck splashing for Shriekmaw seems perfectly acceptable. Gilt-Leaf Ambush is a solid card in an elf deck, but you don't have that. Pack 5: Again, taking the best card gives you Wizened Cenn. Thieving Sprite is nowhere near.
Pack 6: This is a pretty weak pack (ponder and twig are probably the strongest cards), but with the white cards taken so far I'd plump for Kinsbaile Skirmisher. As you take Hornet Harrasser, you have taken Incremental Growth, mediocre elves, Tarpitcher, and BB goblins. Your deck is turning into a trainwreck.
Pack 7: Surge for me, Hunter of Eyeblights for you. Pack 8: Whirlpool Whelm is the best card in the pack, and I like it more than Moonglove Winnower
After the first pack, I think that I disagree with you on card strengths. You want to take the best cards early on (about the only pick I agreed with you on was Shriekmaw), and then use those powerful/underdrafted cards to see what tribes you shold slip into.
After the first pack I would have Shriekmaw Whirlpool Whelm Streambed Aquitects 2 Surge of Thoughtweft Goldmeadow Harrier Kinsbaile Skirmisher Wizened Cenn Galepowder Mage
That's a solid UWb base, with a clear tribe established, AND taking the best cards. By contract you have
Fistful of Force Kithkin Daggerdare Gilt-Leaf Ambush Incremental Growth 3 Thieving Sprite Hornet Harasser Hunter of Eyeblights Moonglove Winnower Shriekmaw Tar Pitcher
There's no synergy there and quite frankly, all of your black except the shriekmaw is really mediocre. You don't have a tribe, unless you count 3 sprites as a tribe, or 2 4-drop goblins as a tribe. And you aren't even in two colours (unless you abandon the green, and the first pick you took over galepowder mage).
Meh.
Pack 16: I like Avian Changeling for my soldier deck, Sneaking Pie Sneak for you as hoping to get luck on goblins seems like the best possible outcome for your deck thus far. Vigor is defensible (if he's playable he is probably the most powerful card in the pack), but makes your already unbalanced deck even more unbalanced.
Pack 17: Eyeblight's Ending for both of us Pack 18: Plover Knights over Vivid Marsh Pack 19: Silvergill Douser vs Woodland Changeling Pack 20: Kinsbaile Balloonist vs Ghostly Changeling. Finally the card you are drafting is more inherently powerful that what the Uwb deck gets. Pack 21: Vivid Grove for both of us Pack 22: Triclopean Sight vs Battlewand Oak, both of us taking tribal enablers Pack 23: Veteran of the Depths vs Leaf Gilder, again a better card for you Pack 24: Judge of Currents vs Bog-Strider Ash, another win for you Pack 25: Judge of Currents vs Black Poplar Shaman Pack 26: Runed Stalactite for both
So after the second pack you have settled down into BG at least, but have no real tribe. My draft is being derailed somewhat, as the contents of the packs are diluted by virtue of the fact that there's another person or two taking all the white cards that you should have.
Pack 31: Pestermite for me, Thorntooth Witch as an utter gift for you. Now you badly need a treefolk Habringer. Pack 32: Aethersnipe vs Immaculate Magistrate. Another gift for you. Pack 33: Eyeblight's Ending vs Marsh Flitter. I like the removal more for you.
Pack 36: I think you should have taken Ghostly Changeling rather than Boggart Loggers
Pack 38: Incremental Growth. You are way overrating this card. I only like to run it with 17+ creatures and an early curve. Too many games involve you getting run over without 3 creatures ever being in play.
Pack 39: You have (or should have) abandoned red at this point because of BB and GGG mana costs in yoru pile. Given that you have lucked into Treefolk, Rootgrapple seems like the definite pick over Boggart Sprite-Chaser
Regarding your final list, the Harassers and Sprites are very mediocre in your deck. It would seem to need to draw Shriekmaw, Witch or connect with a Growth to have any chance of winning (all 5+ mana spells). And no flyer defence. I'd expect this deck to lose to almost any deck with decent tribal synergies.
[quote]I guess by “power” in LRW, I mean not particularly trying to draft a tribe, or colors necessarily, but more trying to grab strong cards in a vacuum.[/quote] I think that we have different opinions on what is a powerful card.
Regarding your matches, congrats on winning the draft. Perhaps I was unduly pessimistic about yoru deck.
On to draft #2.
Pack 1: Yep, Merrow Reejerey Pack 2: Aethersnipe over Changeling Titan. Pack 3: Yep, Streambed Aquitects. I am definitely thinking Merfolk with both feet here.
I liked pretty much all of yoru picks except turning down Aethersnipe for Changeling Titan.
Pack 16: Nameless Inversion is fine here. Pack 17: Merrow Reejerey is awesome, now we basically take every merfolk we see. Pack 18: Aethersnipe over Marsh Flitter. Merfolk are weak to cards like Hurly Burly, and Aethersnipe stops that. Pack 19: Whirlpool Whelm over Thieving Sprite Pack 21: Broken Ambitions over Whirlpool Whelm Pack 25: Aquitect's Will over Skeletal Changeling
Pack 36: Glimmerdust Nap over Hornet Harasser
Well, I think that you drafted quite well here, but were a little unlucky to not get many good merfolk passed your way. Regarding your final decklist, I'd cut Springleaf Drum (only good with the right merfolk) Nectar Faerie Dreamspoiler Witches Island for more MERFOLK Paperfin Rascal Paperfin Rascal [FOIL] Skeletal Changeling Shelldock Isle
You cut blue well, but I have to wonder about that dabble in green for Changeling Titan when you had an Aethersnipe staring you in the face. I think you were a little unlucky not to go futher (or rather, you were unlucky to play against a more powerful 3 colour deck that hit it's mana).
I broadly agree with your final note regarding weak/strong packs: [quote]I could've been in those Red cards, as I noted with that Tarfires, but I chose to keep on-color, going for a more consistent deck. I'm not sure if I'm being exactly clear here, and I may be over-stating the obvious, but it comes down to this: If the packs are bad, you're often-times better suited by trying to keep your deck simple, exploit one or two tribal synergies for a solid deck that can win at least a round in a 4-3-2-2 or two rounds in an 8-4, to try to get your packs back. When the packs are strong (as they were for my opponent this last round), it is fine to be greedy and splash multiple bombs or just strong cards in a third color, or even third and fourth tribe. I know we're approaching LLM drafts soon, but I wanted to do this comparison in drafts for demonstration's sake.[/quote] The other reason that this is true is because when the packs are strong you will get manafixing slightly later.
so i think this is the best article youve done so far buddy. simply great to me.
the only nit pick i had was that you said youd uptade the decklists once a month. i think it would behoove you to get out as many of the top 10 decklists as fast as possible. ie next week when there is no pe. that way you still have something to put in your article and there would be all the matchup data and stock lists of the deck.
your starting to pack quite a bit of data in here and i enjoy it.
last thing could you make it possible to have a frank kasrstenesque deck o pedia link on your articles seeing as you plan on getting at least the 10 most dominanate decks into your data.
Great Article, I know the 4 slot is already full, but did you test at all with Wort? I still haven't decided if its too slow.
I've been trying to move my Goblin deck to focus more around Empty the Warrens with Lotus Bloom and Rift Bolt. I'm going to try and replace the Shenanigans with the Gravepact as you suggest.
Thanks to WoCoNation we now have a draft format also.
PDC is the best, competitive but friendly community.
Woops, guess I should note that this change in the way Extended rotates has now resulted in Onslaught, Legions, and Scourge becoming legal in the Future Extended format.
Just for clarity:
The DCI has altered the way that the Extended format will rotate in the future. Invasion, Planeshift, Apocalypse (IPA), Odyssee, Torment, and Judgement (OTJ) will rotate out in October leaving Onslaught Block to join the current roster of Future Extended legal sets.
Originally, The DCI had intended to rotate IPA - OLS and have a rotation every few years rotating 3 blocks at a time but now they have opted for simplicity and a matching of the current Standard rotation schedule.
I don't think I jave ever seen an article on community like yours. It was a great article.
A person i know once wrote a psychology paper for college, and it was about the differences in communicating between real life and chat rooms. You're article focuses on online only, but is still very good.
I joined MTGO after trying the free trial. I got advice from you guys at this website, and i have gotten so much usefull info about card prices and strategy from you guys. Thanks.
I am a casual onlinr player,but i like to have a good deck. I am a former Paper magic player, who was quite sucsessfull at one tournament in particular.
i play online as: joefiorini
captain of damage inc
I don't get it. What's MTGO?
WB has got to be the strongest deck of the three right i mean black is undeniable with a shriekmaw and a makeshift, and white gives you not only early game threats but white siege-gang commander, Cloudgoat ranger!. Blue is underpowered... no card draw and flyers are tight but tempo is better in my opinion.
How is this possible?
Cranial plating $0.60x185%=1.00
How is this possible?
You are Jon Finkel...and yes the caps were neccessary
Ack. I wrote this quite some time ago and I'm rather suprised to see it up now. For starters, some cards have changed in my perspective in their value.
The biggest change is Murmuring Bosk that I find from feedback from type 2 and extended in real life, is slightly less powerful than when I first felt because the not all decks need this versitility it provides at the expense of 1 life per activation and also the fact that it might just come into play tapped.
The second change in value would be Reveilark which is so much better than I could ever imagine.
A card that isn't mentioned but I feel is really good is Shared Animosity, which essentially makes any deck that runs creatures that share a type really hard to handle even with wrath effects when they start coming down as tokens.
Still, I value Vendillion Clique very highly in Singleton and my opinions regarding goblins have not changed. With everyone more informed than when I first wrote this, I think it would be of less value.
The cards I want to get from this set would be:
Bitterblossom
Vendillion Clique
Goblins
Reveilark
Shared Animosity
Murmuring Bosk
Mutavault
Scapeshift (cos it's difficult to get tron out in singleton)
Leaf-Crowned Elder
Mind Shatter
Shard Volley
I def considered the Titan (Part of the reason I picked him is that he's pretty splashable). I probably should have just MD him since he was huge, but I did side him in game 2 each time.
As far as the comment below about the first deck being lucky to win a round, I disagree. I won my round without ever getting to drop Vigor or Tarpitcher. Mostly I just got a two-for-one or two, and the Growthed for the win.
I haven't reached that level of mastery. And I didn't have any booze on-hand.
Wait a minute?! Were you drunk during ANY of these drafts?!
No! You weren't?!?! Next article please.. .psh!
Although I don't HATE the trawl, just don't want to have to pick it early. Pick 6+ in an aggroish deck, or just a deck needing card advantage, it is nice.
Appreciate the kind words Whiffy. Thanks for reading.
Your "alternate" draft was solid, and would have been better had I been cutting UW of course. I think that sort of illustrated the power of these packs. Part of the reason I drafted some of the slightly under-powered Green cards in Pack One was to cut green as heavily as possible, and by passing the Galepowder, I HOPEFULLY indicated to my opponent that he should maybe jump into white. I felt like my semi-cutting of Green was rewarded with some of the later gifts.
I did consider the Fear Goblin over Vigor, but I was already wanting to play Green (even though it didn't seem to be working out SUPER-well thus far), and I felt like the power-difference was just too large to not get him.
You're right about Rootgrapple, that was a HORRID pick by me, as I was still blinded by greedy images of a silly (yet some-how workable in my imagination) build that was BGr Faerie/Goblin aggro. I wasn't even drinking when I made these picks :/
"The other reason that this is true is because when the packs are strong you will get manafixing slightly later."
Another very good point.
Thanks for the solid feedback and re-draft.
Yea, I've since had drafts with Growth that I didn't win, but usually it was because I did something dumb like chump blocked with my early guys, when I should have just taken damage, and sat on drawing into growth for a win, or when I didn't draft enough removal.
I agree about Shelldock. I was previously contemplating the splash for the Titan, and decided I didn't want it, then forgot to add it when I didn't splash for green. However, it really should have just been played in either build.
Pack 1: Galepowder Mage is sooo much better than Incremental Growth
Pack 3: Goldmeadow Harrier over Tar Pitcher. You are passing Giant Harbringer in this pack, so your 'if the red starts flowing' reasoning seems flawed.
Pack 4: Streambed Aquitects is the best card in the pack, and with the white cards so far, a UW deck splashing for Shriekmaw seems perfectly acceptable. Gilt-Leaf Ambush is a solid card in an elf deck, but you don't have that.
Pack 5: Again, taking the best card gives you Wizened Cenn. Thieving Sprite is nowhere near.
Pack 6: This is a pretty weak pack (ponder and twig are probably the strongest cards), but with the white cards taken so far I'd plump for Kinsbaile Skirmisher. As you take Hornet Harrasser, you have taken Incremental Growth, mediocre elves, Tarpitcher, and BB goblins. Your deck is turning into a trainwreck.
Pack 7: Surge for me, Hunter of Eyeblights for you.
Pack 8: Whirlpool Whelm is the best card in the pack, and I like it more than Moonglove Winnower
After the first pack, I think that I disagree with you on card strengths. You want to take the best cards early on (about the only pick I agreed with you on was Shriekmaw), and then use those powerful/underdrafted cards to see what tribes you shold slip into.
After the first pack I would have
Shriekmaw
Whirlpool Whelm
Streambed Aquitects
2 Surge of Thoughtweft
Goldmeadow Harrier
Kinsbaile Skirmisher
Wizened Cenn
Galepowder Mage
That's a solid UWb base, with a clear tribe established, AND taking the best cards. By contract you have
Fistful of Force
Kithkin Daggerdare
Gilt-Leaf Ambush
Incremental Growth
3 Thieving Sprite
Hornet Harasser
Hunter of Eyeblights
Moonglove Winnower
Shriekmaw
Tar Pitcher
There's no synergy there and quite frankly, all of your black except the shriekmaw is really mediocre. You don't have a tribe, unless you count 3 sprites as a tribe, or 2 4-drop goblins as a tribe. And you aren't even in two colours (unless you abandon the green, and the first pick you took over galepowder mage).
Meh.
Pack 16: I like Avian Changeling for my soldier deck, Sneaking Pie Sneak for you as hoping to get luck on goblins seems like the best possible outcome for your deck thus far. Vigor is defensible (if he's playable he is probably the most powerful card in the pack), but makes your already unbalanced deck even more unbalanced.
Pack 17: Eyeblight's Ending for both of us
Pack 18: Plover Knights over Vivid Marsh
Pack 19: Silvergill Douser vs Woodland Changeling
Pack 20: Kinsbaile Balloonist vs Ghostly Changeling. Finally the card you are drafting is more inherently powerful that what the Uwb deck gets.
Pack 21: Vivid Grove for both of us
Pack 22: Triclopean Sight vs Battlewand Oak, both of us taking tribal enablers
Pack 23: Veteran of the Depths vs Leaf Gilder, again a better card for you
Pack 24: Judge of Currents vs Bog-Strider Ash, another win for you
Pack 25: Judge of Currents vs Black Poplar Shaman
Pack 26: Runed Stalactite for both
So after the second pack you have settled down into BG at least, but have no real tribe. My draft is being derailed somewhat, as the contents of the packs are diluted by virtue of the fact that there's another person or two taking all the white cards that you should have.
Pack 31: Pestermite for me, Thorntooth Witch as an utter gift for you. Now you badly need a treefolk Habringer.
Pack 32: Aethersnipe vs Immaculate Magistrate. Another gift for you.
Pack 33: Eyeblight's Ending vs Marsh Flitter. I like the removal more for you.
Pack 36: I think you should have taken Ghostly Changeling rather than Boggart Loggers
Pack 38: Incremental Growth. You are way overrating this card. I only like to run it with 17+ creatures and an early curve. Too many games involve you getting run over without 3 creatures ever being in play.
Pack 39: You have (or should have) abandoned red at this point because of BB and GGG mana costs in yoru pile. Given that you have lucked into Treefolk, Rootgrapple seems like the definite pick over Boggart Sprite-Chaser
Regarding your final list, the Harassers and Sprites are very mediocre in your deck. It would seem to need to draw Shriekmaw, Witch or connect with a Growth to have any chance of winning (all 5+ mana spells). And no flyer defence. I'd expect this deck to lose to almost any deck with decent tribal synergies.
[quote]I guess by “power” in LRW, I mean not particularly trying to draft a tribe, or colors necessarily, but more trying to grab strong cards in a vacuum.[/quote]
I think that we have different opinions on what is a powerful card.
Regarding your matches, congrats on winning the draft. Perhaps I was unduly pessimistic about yoru deck.
On to draft #2.
Pack 1: Yep, Merrow Reejerey
Pack 2: Aethersnipe over Changeling Titan.
Pack 3: Yep, Streambed Aquitects. I am definitely thinking Merfolk with both feet here.
I liked pretty much all of yoru picks except turning down Aethersnipe for Changeling Titan.
Pack 16: Nameless Inversion is fine here.
Pack 17: Merrow Reejerey is awesome, now we basically take every merfolk we see.
Pack 18: Aethersnipe over Marsh Flitter. Merfolk are weak to cards like Hurly Burly, and Aethersnipe stops that.
Pack 19: Whirlpool Whelm over Thieving Sprite
Pack 21: Broken Ambitions over Whirlpool Whelm
Pack 25: Aquitect's Will over Skeletal Changeling
Pack 36: Glimmerdust Nap over Hornet Harasser
Well, I think that you drafted quite well here, but were a little unlucky to not get many good merfolk passed your way. Regarding your final decklist, I'd cut
Springleaf Drum (only good with the right merfolk)
Nectar Faerie
Dreamspoiler Witches
Island
for more MERFOLK
Paperfin Rascal
Paperfin Rascal [FOIL]
Skeletal Changeling
Shelldock Isle
You cut blue well, but I have to wonder about that dabble in green for Changeling Titan when you had an Aethersnipe staring you in the face. I think you were a little unlucky not to go futher (or rather, you were unlucky to play against a more powerful 3 colour deck that hit it's mana).
I broadly agree with your final note regarding weak/strong packs:
[quote]I could've been in those Red cards, as I noted with that Tarfires, but I chose to keep on-color, going for a more consistent deck. I'm not sure if I'm being exactly clear here, and I may be over-stating the obvious, but it comes down to this: If the packs are bad, you're often-times better suited by trying to keep your deck simple, exploit one or two tribal synergies for a solid deck that can win at least a round in a 4-3-2-2 or two rounds in an 8-4, to try to get your packs back. When the packs are strong (as they were for my opponent this last round), it is fine to be greedy and splash multiple bombs or just strong cards in a third color, or even third and fourth tribe. I know we're approaching LLM drafts soon, but I wanted to do this comparison in drafts for demonstration's sake.[/quote]
The other reason that this is true is because when the packs are strong you will get manafixing slightly later.
Hellkite targets, meaning that it can't get around Solitary Confinement. Kokusho is also two mana cheaper, which helps sometimes.
I do kind of worry about getting shafted by Leyline though.
um... why does the RDW deck only have 56 cards in it?
so nice article as always there walker but i just gotta say that i almost wet myself whne i read
I pump my Facevault with Harasser, who throws his Hornets at that pestering Pestermite. He turns out to be allergic.
keep on keeping on man
so i think this is the best article youve done so far buddy. simply great to me.
the only nit pick i had was that you said youd uptade the decklists once a month. i think it would behoove you to get out as many of the top 10 decklists as fast as possible. ie next week when there is no pe. that way you still have something to put in your article and there would be all the matchup data and stock lists of the deck.
your starting to pack quite a bit of data in here and i enjoy it.
last thing could you make it possible to have a frank kasrstenesque deck o pedia link on your articles seeing as you plan on getting at least the 10 most dominanate decks into your data.
'Nuff said.