Neo - Thanks for your comments. To answer your question ("isnt that the point tho.... to open up dialouge"), I am open to dialogue that is constructive - that is, "Does this piece add to the growth or well-being of the community?". I grow frustrated, however, when I see a site that I frequent quite regularly become a venue for posts that consist of little more than name calling. In honestly, I’m not open to dialogue that serves no other purpose than that of personnel abuse.Look, I’m neither a hater nor a fan of Mr.Colvin. But I support the posting of his article, because he addressed issues of importance to him (and maybe others in the MTGO world). I am not a fan of some of the responses, because they amounted to name calling. when the posts are constructive, have at it.Thanks for your thoughts.Todd
As I have said before. Anyone is free to write an article and this is just one of the many voices in the community. The fact is that Frank does run a good tournament. He knows what he is doing and he likes to run them. His article has flaws in my opinion and it is by no means how I feel about pre's just because I allowed him to post it on my site. I would love for someone else to write an article on pre's or anything else that is important to them that is going on in the world of Magic Online. If you want to read censored articles all we have to do is go to the wizards of the coast boards. This site is to allow people to speak freely about strategy, news and even sometimes personal opinions about the game. Unless I write an article myself please do not assume that I myself endorse what the person is saying. Please feel free to write your own take on the situation and as long as it is well written and fun to read i'll post it and even give you some store credit for your time. Thanks for your comments and feel free to talk to me in game if this experience still left a bad taste in your mouth. -Heath
This is the thread from Hell, I tell you. This is the first experience that I have had in relation to PureMTGO and/or MagicTraders that has left me wanting to take my business and attention elsewhere.
Heath, I admire your commitment to open dialouge, and allowing a forum for such discussion. But this thread has degenerated into a "I hate Frank/Frank is Fine" name calling session. As such, I would advocate putting the nix on any article or comment that didn't meet this criteria:
"Does this piece add to the growth or well-being of the community?"
If it doesn't, remove it. I read most of whats been posted here, and as a player and a customer, it makes me want to go elsewhere. Sorry. Heath - I hate to put it like that, but I know I speak for other players about this sentiment - clan members or otherwise. Thanks for listening.
Mr. Anonymous, Feel free to write your own viewpoint on pre's and as long as it's fun to read i'll post it also. This site is not about censorship and some of the articles I post might make people unhappy but just because I post them does not mean I agree with everything the articles say. I'm just an outlet for news and articles that the PLAYERS write. Unless I write an article myself please don't assume that I agree with everything the article says.
How did this turn into an attack on Heath? I understand frustration at the article and perhaps even a level of frustation with Frank- but not to the level that has gone on here. Heath is trying to do the same thing a host does- foster a community (and what we have here is a good foundation for one in my opinion). Chances are I am biased since I write here, but still, let Heath associate with whom he chooses.
If you people do not like the way certain PRE's are run, then take initiative and start your own; you are players after all.
Good article. I like how you incorperated the cards into the article. I hope things will get better as well. I would like to think that finances are the issue for not having a bigger staf working on issues. I mean with no monthly access fee like some of the bigger MMOPRGS, I can't se a lot of funding for the game. I would have to think they are relying on other products rahter then MTGO indipendantly. But I am probably wrong.
Frank everyone knows you're a JOKE. heath.. you blew your chance.....on a JOKE Charisma is what makes PRE's work...it is what gets people to attend... not tyrannical dictatorship.. Make your money off selling cards don't spend money paying Frank ( the sell out punk ) nitty to try and promote you... it is a failed system. Try getting back in touch with your roots Heath... if you're smart you can find a way.
They are running a skeleton staff for 2.0 and have even told us why they are doing it. The idea was to divert most of the resources to 3.0 in order to speed it up it. Seemed like a great idea!
Unfortunately this has backfired horribly.Not only has 3.0 gone years past the expected delivery date, 2.0 has probably suffered much more than it should have.At this point, it won’t make fiscal sense to re-staff 2.0 so I doubt anything is likely to improve.
Ok... I would really like to know who you are, although I already have a pretty good idea. If you choose to slander me in such a way, then you need to put a name instead of making statements like this anonymously. There is only one person I have blocked because of PRE's and the person in question chose to take it upon himself to badmouth and curse a sponsor. Then when my sponsor blocked them, they chose to login another acct and do it some more. So it is purely their own fault for their actions and I was told by my sponsor to enforce the said ban. A perma banned was imposed on this account for my SNM event. It is still allowed to play in Dark Wars. If I saw the account wanting to play in Dark Wars, then I would unblock it for the event so it can play, but it would go right back on the blocked list right after the event. You say I am a terrible host... unfortunately, many other's do not share your sentiment. Have a nice day. :)
frank you are a terrible host you abuse your power way too much and try to make yourself our god, no thanks and you have blocked myself and others several times and Dq'ed for things not mentioned on your list. Pre's became bad/boring cause of your abuse of power.
I have to admit that the article is targetted towards those who already know a bit about the situation. Much like PDC article assume that people know what PDC is when they're writing about the meta game.
Although based on how spread out the information is it would have been a good idea to at least link the information that I mention.
I'm sorry, as I know you obviously put a lot of work and thought into this, but this article is a mess for anyone who isn't already very much in the know on these issues. You mention many problems, but too often, you don't make clear exactly what you're talking about. You also would have been better off just completely revising the article to make your points up-to-date rather than patching up out-of-date references with your "Update" comments.
For example:
You say "Based on purported enhancements that are now either missing or deemed 'too difficult'. V3 has gone from being better than V2, to V2 with stability to less stuff than V2 and hopefully, maybe, enhanced stability. This series of events has left many in the community with feeling of betrayed trust and destroyed confidences." But you never clarify what these enhancements are or what happened to them.
You say V3 has been put on hold, but don't cite any source verifying that. The official launch info page currently says that the launch is almost here. I don't doubt that you're right, but you need to clarify where you got your information.
You mention Gleemax distribution, but don't make it clear what you're talking about.
I kind of follow the MTGO Forums and play regularly... also have been on MTGO betas...
What i have to say is that i feel wotc has a lot of work to do... and they dont realize... they have to grow up... as how to work things... they have to made a better process to make software... Add inside testing, add analysts... They could automatize a LOT of testing... you know... scripting scenarios and running them on the rules server... That should accelerate development process a lot.. but well...
For example: Beta testing really dissapointed me... the problem was.. there was SO many bugs... i couldnt test! some cards couldnt been played at all... c'mon.. who releases a beta like that?
I havent lost my hopes.. but im kind of dissapointed.. as i KNOW things could be a lot better..
Erik this one is a perfect article. Very informative for players like myself who rather choose not to get involved in all that hustle going on in the WOTC forums. Perfectly written. I want to thank you as a MTGO player for this article.
This was perhaps my most revised article ever. I feel that I captured the spirit of the past as well as the current spirit of the community between the original article and the updates.
While I was writing it it reminded me of the song Adam Sandler sings in "The Wedding Singer"... "it's sort of uneven" kind of sums up the before and after of the article. "I'm on my knees!!! Pretty pretty pleeaaasseee!!!!!" heh.
I wanted to show that things seemed bad when it was written and that things have indeed been progressing. It sort of puts things into perspective. Things seemed like the end of the MTGO when they were happening, but in retrospect it wasn't as awful as it seemed.
I have been mostly an observer to the trials and tribulations recently, not an active member. I want to applaud Eric for all at once being critical, fair, and praising, all when warranted. I want to thank the vocal members of the community for stepping up, and for the "new staff" at WotC as it were, for heeding the call. Hopefully, things will continue to get better, and Gobhobbler Rats will be fixed soon.
I am going to echo the sentiments of Rich here. I have no doubt that you are a capable host, but you need to, on some level, seperate yourself from the event. I know it sucks because you are taking time and energy (and what little we all have) and investing it into a community to try and make it better- and then some people who really do not care come in and undermine what you have attempted to do. In these situations, do exactly what Rich said and try to walk away. I know how hard it is, I have had my own troubles doing it in the past.
On another note, you might want to reexamine your event rules. Whining and crying, as you put it, is part of the game- if it were not, we would have no bad beat stories. I think giving automatic DQ's is a little harsh, and you may want to reconsider that tenet.
Being a host is walking a fine line- you are a highly individualized member of a community, trying to please everyone. I applaud you for taking on that role and I urge you to take what you can from this article to make yourself an even better host.
I'm sorry but this is no way for an Organizer to act.
Part of the role is to be impartial and act as the mediator not the antagonist.
As a PRE runner myself i try to stay impartial and learn from my mistakes and from the suggestions of others. Rebutting these personal attacks really does nothing to help your cause. Your best bet is to be the better man and walk away.
At the rate you are going i am honestly suprised that MTGO Traders would be willing to have their name attached to someone who does not show them in the best light.
I would tread lightly and calm down. This is a game, enjoy it.
Frank does do a great job running tournies even though his article did come off a bit arrogant when I first read it. Try to give Frank more constructive criticism if you could and keep down on the personal attacks. I admit Frank's article has some flaws but if you have played in a tournament that Frank runs you know that he does a great job.
I would say it is a matter of not being as lenient with the rules as I have in the past. Go figure... you give a bunch of people an inch, they demand a mile.
Neo - Thanks for your comments. To answer your question ("isnt that the point tho.... to open up dialouge"), I am open to dialogue that is constructive - that is, "Does this piece add to the growth or well-being of the community?". I grow frustrated, however, when I see a site that I frequent quite regularly become a venue for posts that consist of little more than name calling. In honestly, I’m not open to dialogue that serves no other purpose than that of personnel abuse.Look, I’m neither a hater nor a fan of Mr. Colvin. But I support the posting of his article, because he addressed issues of importance to him (and maybe others in the MTGO world). I am not a fan of some of the responses, because they amounted to name calling. when the posts are constructive, have at it.Thanks for your thoughts.Todd
As I have said before. Anyone is free to write an article and this is just one of the many voices in the community. The fact is that Frank does run a good tournament. He knows what he is doing and he likes to run them. His article has flaws in my opinion and it is by no means how I feel about pre's just because I allowed him to post it on my site. I would love for someone else to write an article on pre's or anything else that is important to them that is going on in the world of Magic Online. If you want to read censored articles all we have to do is go to the wizards of the coast boards. This site is to allow people to speak freely about strategy, news and even sometimes personal opinions about the game. Unless I write an article myself please do not assume that I myself endorse what the person is saying. Please feel free to write your own take on the situation and as long as it is well written and fun to read i'll post it and even give you some store credit for your time. Thanks for your comments and feel free to talk to me in game if this experience still left a bad taste in your mouth.
-Heath
isnt that the point tho.... to open up dialouge...wether you like it or not these are voices in said "community"
This is the thread from Hell, I tell you. This is the first experience that I have had in relation to PureMTGO and/or MagicTraders that has left me wanting to take my business and attention elsewhere.
Heath, I admire your commitment to open dialouge, and allowing a forum for such discussion. But this thread has degenerated into a "I hate Frank/Frank is Fine" name calling session. As such, I would advocate putting the nix on any article or comment that didn't meet this criteria:
"Does this piece add to the growth or well-being of the community?"
If it doesn't, remove it. I read most of whats been posted here, and as a player and a customer, it makes me want to go elsewhere. Sorry. Heath - I hate to put it like that, but I know I speak for other players about this sentiment - clan members or otherwise. Thanks for listening.
Mr. Anonymous,
Feel free to write your own viewpoint on pre's and as long as it's fun to read i'll post it also. This site is not about censorship and some of the articles I post might make people unhappy but just because I post them does not mean I agree with everything the articles say. I'm just an outlet for news and articles that the PLAYERS write. Unless I write an article myself please don't assume that I agree with everything the article says.
I'm still here and you're still Anonymous, go figure.....
How did this turn into an attack on Heath? I understand frustration at the article and perhaps even a level of frustation with Frank- but not to the level that has gone on here. Heath is trying to do the same thing a host does- foster a community (and what we have here is a good foundation for one in my opinion). Chances are I am biased since I write here, but still, let Heath associate with whom he chooses.
If you people do not like the way certain PRE's are run, then take initiative and start your own; you are players after all.
-Aled
Good article. I like how you incorperated the cards into the article. I hope things will get better as well. I would like to think that finances are the issue for not having a bigger staf working on issues. I mean with no monthly access fee like some of the bigger MMOPRGS, I can't se a lot of funding for the game. I would have to think they are relying on other products rahter then MTGO indipendantly. But I am probably wrong.
Frank everyone knows you're a JOKE. heath.. you blew your chance.....on a JOKE Charisma is what makes PRE's work...it is what gets people to attend... not tyrannical dictatorship.. Make your money off selling cards don't spend money paying Frank ( the sell out punk ) nitty to try and promote you... it is a failed system. Try getting back in touch with your roots Heath... if you're smart you can find a way.
They are running a skeleton staff for 2.0 and have even told us why they are doing it. The idea was to divert most of the resources to 3.0 in order to speed it up it. Seemed like a great idea!
Unfortunately this has backfired horribly. Not only has 3.0 gone years past the expected delivery date, 2.0 has probably suffered much more than it should have. At this point, it won’t make fiscal sense to re-staff 2.0 so I doubt anything is likely to improve.
Ok... I would really like to know who you are, although I already have a pretty good idea. If you choose to slander me in such a way, then you need to put a name instead of making statements like this anonymously. There is only one person I have blocked because of PRE's and the person in question chose to take it upon himself to badmouth and curse a sponsor. Then when my sponsor blocked them, they chose to login another acct and do it some more. So it is purely their own fault for their actions and I was told by my sponsor to enforce the said ban. A perma banned was imposed on this account for my SNM event. It is still allowed to play in Dark Wars. If I saw the account wanting to play in Dark Wars, then I would unblock it for the event so it can play, but it would go right back on the blocked list right after the event. You say I am a terrible host... unfortunately, many other's do not share your sentiment. Have a nice day. :)
I do allow lieniency with that imparticular rule bud. It's when player's become abusive to other players and sponsors is when it is enforced.
frank you are a terrible host you abuse your power way too much and try to make yourself our god, no thanks and you have blocked myself and others several times and Dq'ed for things not mentioned on your list. Pre's became bad/boring cause of your abuse of power.
I have to admit that the article is targetted towards those who already know a bit about the situation. Much like PDC article assume that people know what PDC is when they're writing about the meta game.
Although based on how spread out the information is it would have been a good idea to at least link the information that I mention.
For more info on the Gleemox Promotion: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=865697
For V3 Release Information: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/magiconline/IIIlaunchblog
For one of the missing enhancements: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=849239
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm sorry, as I know you obviously put a lot of work and thought into this, but this article is a mess for anyone who isn't already very much in the know on these issues. You mention many problems, but too often, you don't make clear exactly what you're talking about. You also would have been better off just completely revising the article to make your points up-to-date rather than patching up out-of-date references with your "Update" comments.
For example:
Hi there, good article..
I kind of follow the MTGO Forums and play regularly... also have been on MTGO betas...
What i have to say is that i feel wotc has a lot of work to do... and they dont realize... they have to grow up... as how to work things... they have to made a better process to make software... Add inside testing, add analysts... They could automatize a LOT of testing... you know... scripting scenarios and running them on the rules server... That should accelerate development process a lot.. but well...
For example: Beta testing really dissapointed me... the problem was.. there was SO many bugs... i couldnt test! some cards couldnt been played at all... c'mon.. who releases a beta like that?
I havent lost my hopes.. but im kind of dissapointed.. as i KNOW things could be a lot better..
Erik this one is a perfect article. Very informative for players like myself who rather choose not to get involved in all that hustle going on in the WOTC forums. Perfectly written. I want to thank you as a MTGO player for this article.
This was perhaps my most revised article ever. I feel that I captured the spirit of the past as well as the current spirit of the community between the original article and the updates.
While I was writing it it reminded me of the song Adam Sandler sings in "The Wedding Singer"... "it's sort of uneven" kind of sums up the before and after of the article. "I'm on my knees!!! Pretty pretty pleeaaasseee!!!!!" heh.
I wanted to show that things seemed bad when it was written and that things have indeed been progressing. It sort of puts things into perspective. Things seemed like the end of the MTGO when they were happening, but in retrospect it wasn't as awful as it seemed.
I have been mostly an observer to the trials and tribulations recently, not an active member. I want to applaud Eric for all at once being critical, fair, and praising, all when warranted. I want to thank the vocal members of the community for stepping up, and for the "new staff" at WotC as it were, for heeding the call. Hopefully, things will continue to get better, and Gobhobbler Rats will be fixed soon.
-Alex
I am going to echo the sentiments of Rich here. I have no doubt that you are a capable host, but you need to, on some level, seperate yourself from the event. I know it sucks because you are taking time and energy (and what little we all have) and investing it into a community to try and make it better- and then some people who really do not care come in and undermine what you have attempted to do. In these situations, do exactly what Rich said and try to walk away. I know how hard it is, I have had my own troubles doing it in the past.
On another note, you might want to reexamine your event rules. Whining and crying, as you put it, is part of the game- if it were not, we would have no bad beat stories. I think giving automatic DQ's is a little harsh, and you may want to reconsider that tenet.
Being a host is walking a fine line- you are a highly individualized member of a community, trying to please everyone. I applaud you for taking on that role and I urge you to take what you can from this article to make yourself an even better host.
-Alex
I'm sorry but this is no way for an Organizer to act.
Part of the role is to be impartial and act as the mediator not the antagonist.
As a PRE runner myself i try to stay impartial and learn from my mistakes and from the suggestions of others. Rebutting these personal attacks really does nothing to help your cause. Your best bet is to be the better man and walk away.
At the rate you are going i am honestly suprised that MTGO Traders would be willing to have their name attached to someone who does not show them in the best light.
I would tread lightly and calm down. This is a game, enjoy it.
Frank does do a great job running tournies even though his article did come off a bit arrogant when I first read it. Try to give Frank more constructive criticism if you could and keep down on the personal attacks. I admit Frank's article has some flaws but if you have played in a tournament that Frank runs you know that he does a great job.
Heh, I typo'd... "arrogance" There, one less thing for people who don't even play my events to complain about. ^_^
I would say it is a matter of not being as lenient with the rules as I have in the past. Go figure... you give a bunch of people an inch, they demand a mile.
Heh, all good if you don't want to play events I host. It's your loss, not mine! :)