You can't really compare Grixis Battlemage and Frontline Sage as they are completely different cards. The Sage is basically trash as a 0/1 looter for 3 mana and it has a activation cost. The exalted is usually irrelevant as well basically think of it as a worse Dawnray Archers and think is that something you really want near your deck?
Battlemage at least has 2 relevant abilities and its still a gray Ogre in the absolute worst case scenario. Plus it doesn't randomly die to pingers and its black making it immune to further removal options that the sage isn't.
It's a shame that your article got knocked out of the top spot so quickly, and the pinned article that's right above it keeps this one from getting as much readership.
I really like articles that do color-by-color examination, particularly when it contrasts the colors.
My take on your over- and under's:
Overrated:
I think 5th-8th is a tad early to take Esperzoa if you're not in an Artifact-heavy deck. It's a pure hatedraft at that point, isn't it? On the other hand, in that deck, you happily take it 1st over just about anything that isn't Magister Sphinx. (even then, you might take it, depending how much you can use the bounce... if you're going to get 7th and 8th pick Darklit Gargoyles and Court Homunculi... Esperzoa is probably better)
Scepter of Insight is really bad in base-Blue decks, which have access to Courier's Capsule. 11 mana to go +1 card is just way too much. I'd take it 7th - 8th if i were base-Blue.
Frontline Sage is terrible. It's not even playable in Sealed. 12th+.
View from Above is the worst blue common. If Grixis Illusionist (which, admittedly, i've never played) is 10th+, so is View.
Underrated:
Brackwater Elemental is terrific in the aggressive Esper decks that i'm seeing dominate draft queues. A 4/4 attacking on turn 4 is just a lot to deal with, especially since most opponents will be very reluctant to trade for it, knowing it'll just be back next turn. It's worthy of 3rd-5th, though you'll get them later. (I'd be surprised if anyone is getting them 9th)
Master Transmuter is a windmill slam if you're even splashing Blue. Turn 4 is plenty of time to find the singleton Blue mana you need to get it online, and it's a must-kill card. Even if you take it first, you should be able to, at least, grab a Parasitic Strix or something that you can use as a flying Metallurgeon... to say nothing of picking up a late Kaleidostone.
I like Cumberstone a lot. Even against Naya fattie decks, you're turning off their 5-power matters theme, and that can be huge. Again, worthy at just a bit higher (4th-5th), but you should be able to get it later. It obviously neuters the daylights out of most aggro decks, which won't bother packing artifact removal. I'd be thrilled to have this in any 5-color deck.
I agree overall Magma Spray is a better card then zombie. I don't agree you can't justify taking the zombie. If we were talking stinger or resounding thunder I'd agree completely as the card is infinitely better. However if you take P1P2 Bonesplinters the Zombie is exactly the kind of creature I want in my deck. I don't want to commit to a shard by pick 3 without a bomb making it worth my while and I don't like splashing something like Magma spray which is best early.
Keeping your options open early is also worth some overall card quality and the exceptions to that are cards that can and should win on there own unmolested. In my discussion of this we already have 2 removal spells better then Magma spray so forcing that third color for something we can likely pick up later isn't really worthwhile. Also the 2 missing cards are a rare and a uncommon so its not like its a signal of any sort to see a good red common in a pack pick 3.
Just curious but...isnt Grix one of the worst color combinations? Pretty sure that the opinion of the pro players is that Grix is the worst. Both of these drafts you have essentially forced Grix. Just seems a little odd.
So anyway, if your going to force Grix or even just UB then I thought that the key to it was Unearth. With unearth the cards like Bone Splinters are extremely good. Also, at the second pick in the draft you dont know if some group of donks are gonna pass you a third pick Tower Gargoyle/Oblivion Ring/etc that would make you want to have just UB cards in your pile. The pinger pick two is just incorrect from the standpoint of taking a great card for UB versus a good card in BR when you have a great UB card from pick one. Your closing down options for pick 3.
One of the keys of drafting is leaving options open for what your opponents pass you. Now, I dont mind going in with a strategy and taking early picks to support that strategy but the Bone Splinters is probably just straight up better than the pinger AND it leaves you open to go UBW, if the cards come.
I have to agree on the battlemage also. That guy is fine but Tar Fiend is frequently a topdeck for the win. It also gives the UB deck a big critter to do battle with Naya's infinite 5-power guys. Finally, hes not like the other devour guys where a bounce spell eats your lunch because of the discard card ability...
After you justify taking the Battlemage pick 4 you go on to pass on the Frontline Sage pack 3, pick 10. Kind of curious on how your valuations go there. Battlemage is better than a bomb rare but Frontline Sage, with similar abilities, is not 10-th pick playable? The correct pick there is probably the wretched banquet tho. Especially with the double Suicidal Charges. That card is quite good actually.
While most of those could be open for discussion, if there's a pick that should have no discussion it's p1p3. Magma Spray is so much better than the zombie that you can't justify taking the zombie over it in the 3rd pick.
I certainly don't agree with several of your picks in this draft you were forcing quite heavily. As for relevant information details on what kind of queue this is as well would be nice. As for the picks I question.
P1P2 Taking a cultist second over bonesplinters when you took a U/B card first pick is just wrong. You mentioned you like Grixis but this is forcing a stinger maybe but a cultist doesn't warrant that.
P1P3 Its correct with your second pick and if your intent on forcing grixis but I don't like defining my colors so early. If you took splinters I prefer Zombie here.
P1P4 This is another pick where your forcing pretty heavily its clear black is open at this point but guildmage is not better then Tarfiend its not even close and I agree that Battlemage is the 6th best card in this pack. Oh and because you asked Sculler is quite good in limited as you can steal a early play and ruin there curve virtually timewalking them early.
P1P5 more discussion should be used here being I would be nearly mono-black right now I'd take the beetle as is blue isn't flowing at all and I don't like the capsule.
P1P7 As you don't have a splinters or tarfiend I don't like fodder here take the panorama so you don't have to take fixing over better cards later. If you had been taking black upto this point I'd grab the fodder though.
P1P8 Astrolab was a corner case card in esper in AAA in AAC any artifact heavy deck should have more then enough playables after conflux take a relevant card here instead likely welken guide.
P1P9 you already said what you should have taken
P1P9-15 your basically hate drafting or taking complete crap while other shards are showing much better cards I feel you should be more towards esper or Jund at this point as blue is the one color clearly not comming.
P2P2 On color lands are great but your passing much higher quality cards to take the tri-land here a good sign you've forced your draft.
P2P3 This pick is so painful its not even funny. At best your taking the 4th best card here even in grixis I think I prefer the screecher to the zombie.
P2P4 Then here I prefer the zombie to the Deathraiders. I just don't think you need to stretch your mana for minimal benefit.
P2P7 Kreeper over Scourge devil seems completely wrong to me.
P3P6 I like suicidal charge but I prefer the outlander to get more blue guys to turn on my alchemists
P3P7 This pick is 100% wrong Sphere is infinately better here.
P3P8 once again I like charge but outlander and Wretched banquet seem to do more in your speedy deck.
P3P10 I don't think you want to activate this guys ability as such I'd take Wretched banquet here.
I can't even comment on the game recaps as not enough information is provided all it says is we played some cards and I won a few times which is basically worthless. I am surprized you had the blue creature to make use of your alchemists so often though seems you really got pretty lucky with your mana/draws in those games at the very least.
thanx for the props i wrote this for article purposes, if i have to take a 1-3 for the purpose of writing one then i will.
Tumultuous the thing with coup is that it can work as a WOG effect for 7 mana but if you have glorious anthems in play a martial coup for 3-4 is just as good combined with mirrorweave can be just as deadly
I disagree with a few picks: P1P4 Hissing Iguanar (I also like Grixis Battlemage but I think the Iguanar is better), P1P8 I would have hated Steward but I have no experiencie with the Astrolabe outside Esper, P1P9 I would have hated the Knight because 99% of the time I won't be playing Cancel (I actually prefer offcolor cyclers) and P3P7 I think the Sphere is the correct pick. I'm still not sure about cards like wretched banquet and suicidal charge so I can't comment on that.
So in the end grixis battlemage over iguanar and hellspark over sphere are the only real mistakes. Some people actually like Cancel. The astrolabe could be fantastic in the right deck (so even just hating it might ruin someone's draft when they were expecting it to come back). It's to early to judge correctly cards like wretched banquet (a removal spell that has a big limitation) and suicidal charge (is it too slow?). I'm sure the banquet must be good in a deck full of removal and some big creatures but how good is it in an very aggro deck?
But even though I prefer Iguanar to the battlemage, I don't think they're that far off in power level. They're actually close. And he probably hasn't played with the sphere enough to take hellspark elemental over sphere (or maybe I and most people underrate hellspark and it can actually be pretty good) so he opted for the elemental. I don't think these 2 picks ruin the draft in any way and they might be closer than people think.
Everyone has his own style of drafting and even if you disagree on some picks, if you look at the article with an open mind, you can always learn something.
I disagree with several of your picks, but A) you won and B) you're probably a better drafter
than I am; so I won't try to argue the picks.
The only thing I've really got to add is that some commentary on your thought process for each
pick (why you picked it over other cards, what you were considering at each stage, etc) would
really flesh out the article. As is, it feels a little light and a bit confusing (especially for
weaker drafters trying to get better).
Even thos I agree with most of your picks, i would have really like to see some comentaries about them. In this state it feels like the article is incomplete.
I agree on the sphere being a good pick (P3P7): early it will help fix your mana base, late it will thin lands. Especially since you already had Nicol Bolas in your pile.
I've never picked a Battlemage 10th-12th.I would be really happy to get it anyway that late. I see 3 choices for me in that pack: Tar Fiend , Hissing Iguanar and Grixis Battlemage. I'm receiving a 4th pick Tar Fiend,Iguanar and Grixis so Im felling good about either Grixis or Jund.Wild Nacatl and Jungle Weaver are not worth even mentioning there. Tell me how good is Tidehollow Sculler in limited?I mean , im BR at least at the moment with the Agony Warp sitting there and you tell me I should have picked the Sculler? a WB card thats its not that important in this format since it will be sitting there untilits killed. Yes they have to trow removal at them but still its a creature and they have killed it.Tar fiend is good when you have enough creatures and cards like Dragon fodder so its a situational pick. The land is obviously good but Im not planning on branching out since Im getting a steady flow of good in color cards. Also speaking about picking a card that may have helped splashing a card I didnt pick seems odd.
I consider myself an above average limited player. I played the Astrolabe several times both in AAA and AAC in grixis or esper and I felt good about it everytime. Most of the times its a self cycler and the other times it a card advantage engine turning a dying creature into a new card.Especially good in Esper but also nice with enough artifacts or Puppet Conjurer. I dont see how playing it means my deck is bad.
regardless, you can always get that card in the 10th-12th pick range. tar fiend is an excellent card, iguanar might even be better. the land was also not a bad pick had you taken it, you may have wanted to maybe splash that jund charm you would pass later on and the land would have helped with it. sculler also would have been a better choice. the bottom line is that the battlemage was the 6th best card in the pack and you still took it. i can't say you drafted poorly though because triple alchemist with an aggro deck like yours is usually too good for anyone to compete, but i'm willing to bet iguanar would have definitely been better in your deck after reading about how your matches went.
The astrolabe is a decent card since I can pick out a Puppet Conjurer to turn into a nice card advantage engine or even some Parasitic Strix in Conflux.Also hate picking Steward of Valeron or Welkin Guide is not worth it since I can pick something that can go into my deck.
and then you took astrolabe over hating a steward and welkin guide... and then you took hellspark over sphere? ask any pro about sphere, but you could make the argument that your deck was fast beats and didn't need the fix (which i still disagree with). also i can't see taking the charge over the 2/2 outlander or wretched banquet (probably most underrated removal in the format). nice job winning though.
Well I dont know what experience you have in this format but the battlemage is actually a pretty solid card. Filtering your deck or removing a potencial blocker from combat, both really relevant abilities in the limited format.
Domain is a more casual deck type. The tournament scene is very fast and furious and aggressive. Domain on its own does nothing. Once you achieve it, you have to play cards that take advantage of it. Which requires time. Which you won't have in tournaments.
You can't really compare Grixis Battlemage and Frontline Sage as they are completely different cards. The Sage is basically trash as a 0/1 looter for 3 mana and it has a activation cost. The exalted is usually irrelevant as well basically think of it as a worse Dawnray Archers and think is that something you really want near your deck?
Battlemage at least has 2 relevant abilities and its still a gray Ogre in the absolute worst case scenario. Plus it doesn't randomly die to pingers and its black making it immune to further removal options that the sage isn't.
It's a shame that your article got knocked out of the top spot so quickly, and the pinned article that's right above it keeps this one from getting as much readership.
I really like articles that do color-by-color examination, particularly when it contrasts the colors.
My take on your over- and under's:
Overrated:
I think 5th-8th is a tad early to take Esperzoa if you're not in an Artifact-heavy deck. It's a pure hatedraft at that point, isn't it? On the other hand, in that deck, you happily take it 1st over just about anything that isn't Magister Sphinx. (even then, you might take it, depending how much you can use the bounce... if you're going to get 7th and 8th pick Darklit Gargoyles and Court Homunculi... Esperzoa is probably better)
Scepter of Insight is really bad in base-Blue decks, which have access to Courier's Capsule. 11 mana to go +1 card is just way too much. I'd take it 7th - 8th if i were base-Blue.
Frontline Sage is terrible. It's not even playable in Sealed. 12th+.
View from Above is the worst blue common. If Grixis Illusionist (which, admittedly, i've never played) is 10th+, so is View.
Underrated:
Brackwater Elemental is terrific in the aggressive Esper decks that i'm seeing dominate draft queues. A 4/4 attacking on turn 4 is just a lot to deal with, especially since most opponents will be very reluctant to trade for it, knowing it'll just be back next turn. It's worthy of 3rd-5th, though you'll get them later. (I'd be surprised if anyone is getting them 9th)
Master Transmuter is a windmill slam if you're even splashing Blue. Turn 4 is plenty of time to find the singleton Blue mana you need to get it online, and it's a must-kill card. Even if you take it first, you should be able to, at least, grab a Parasitic Strix or something that you can use as a flying Metallurgeon... to say nothing of picking up a late Kaleidostone.
I like Cumberstone a lot. Even against Naya fattie decks, you're turning off their 5-power matters theme, and that can be huge. Again, worthy at just a bit higher (4th-5th), but you should be able to get it later. It obviously neuters the daylights out of most aggro decks, which won't bother packing artifact removal. I'd be thrilled to have this in any 5-color deck.
Obviously, Blue got a lot of help in Conflux.
I agree overall Magma Spray is a better card then zombie. I don't agree you can't justify taking the zombie. If we were talking stinger or resounding thunder I'd agree completely as the card is infinitely better. However if you take P1P2 Bonesplinters the Zombie is exactly the kind of creature I want in my deck. I don't want to commit to a shard by pick 3 without a bomb making it worth my while and I don't like splashing something like Magma spray which is best early.
Keeping your options open early is also worth some overall card quality and the exceptions to that are cards that can and should win on there own unmolested. In my discussion of this we already have 2 removal spells better then Magma spray so forcing that third color for something we can likely pick up later isn't really worthwhile. Also the 2 missing cards are a rare and a uncommon so its not like its a signal of any sort to see a good red common in a pack pick 3.
Just curious but...isnt Grix one of the worst color combinations? Pretty sure that the opinion of the pro players is that Grix is the worst. Both of these drafts you have essentially forced Grix. Just seems a little odd.
So anyway, if your going to force Grix or even just UB then I thought that the key to it was Unearth. With unearth the cards like Bone Splinters are extremely good. Also, at the second pick in the draft you dont know if some group of donks are gonna pass you a third pick Tower Gargoyle/Oblivion Ring/etc that would make you want to have just UB cards in your pile. The pinger pick two is just incorrect from the standpoint of taking a great card for UB versus a good card in BR when you have a great UB card from pick one. Your closing down options for pick 3.
One of the keys of drafting is leaving options open for what your opponents pass you. Now, I dont mind going in with a strategy and taking early picks to support that strategy but the Bone Splinters is probably just straight up better than the pinger AND it leaves you open to go UBW, if the cards come.
I have to agree on the battlemage also. That guy is fine but Tar Fiend is frequently a topdeck for the win. It also gives the UB deck a big critter to do battle with Naya's infinite 5-power guys. Finally, hes not like the other devour guys where a bounce spell eats your lunch because of the discard card ability...
After you justify taking the Battlemage pick 4 you go on to pass on the Frontline Sage pack 3, pick 10. Kind of curious on how your valuations go there. Battlemage is better than a bomb rare but Frontline Sage, with similar abilities, is not 10-th pick playable? The correct pick there is probably the wretched banquet tho. Especially with the double Suicidal Charges. That card is quite good actually.
-M
you're right, but that's what usually happens in small sets. ever drafted triple eventide? you can usually win by turn 5 lol 5 mimics ftw
Was it just me, or were there alot of dupicated boosters in the third draft round? Kinda crazy.
While most of those could be open for discussion, if there's a pick that should have no discussion it's p1p3. Magma Spray is so much better than the zombie that you can't justify taking the zombie over it in the 3rd pick.
I certainly don't agree with several of your picks in this draft you were forcing quite heavily. As for relevant information details on what kind of queue this is as well would be nice. As for the picks I question.
P1P2 Taking a cultist second over bonesplinters when you took a U/B card first pick is just wrong. You mentioned you like Grixis but this is forcing a stinger maybe but a cultist doesn't warrant that.
P1P3 Its correct with your second pick and if your intent on forcing grixis but I don't like defining my colors so early. If you took splinters I prefer Zombie here.
P1P4 This is another pick where your forcing pretty heavily its clear black is open at this point but guildmage is not better then Tarfiend its not even close and I agree that Battlemage is the 6th best card in this pack. Oh and because you asked Sculler is quite good in limited as you can steal a early play and ruin there curve virtually timewalking them early.
P1P5 more discussion should be used here being I would be nearly mono-black right now I'd take the beetle as is blue isn't flowing at all and I don't like the capsule.
P1P7 As you don't have a splinters or tarfiend I don't like fodder here take the panorama so you don't have to take fixing over better cards later. If you had been taking black upto this point I'd grab the fodder though.
P1P8 Astrolab was a corner case card in esper in AAA in AAC any artifact heavy deck should have more then enough playables after conflux take a relevant card here instead likely welken guide.
P1P9 you already said what you should have taken
P1P9-15 your basically hate drafting or taking complete crap while other shards are showing much better cards I feel you should be more towards esper or Jund at this point as blue is the one color clearly not comming.
P2P2 On color lands are great but your passing much higher quality cards to take the tri-land here a good sign you've forced your draft.
P2P3 This pick is so painful its not even funny. At best your taking the 4th best card here even in grixis I think I prefer the screecher to the zombie.
P2P4 Then here I prefer the zombie to the Deathraiders. I just don't think you need to stretch your mana for minimal benefit.
P2P7 Kreeper over Scourge devil seems completely wrong to me.
P3P6 I like suicidal charge but I prefer the outlander to get more blue guys to turn on my alchemists
P3P7 This pick is 100% wrong Sphere is infinately better here.
P3P8 once again I like charge but outlander and Wretched banquet seem to do more in your speedy deck.
P3P10 I don't think you want to activate this guys ability as such I'd take Wretched banquet here.
I can't even comment on the game recaps as not enough information is provided all it says is we played some cards and I won a few times which is basically worthless. I am surprized you had the blue creature to make use of your alchemists so often though seems you really got pretty lucky with your mana/draws in those games at the very least.
thanx for the props i wrote this for article purposes, if i have to take a 1-3 for the purpose of writing one then i will.
Tumultuous the thing with coup is that it can work as a WOG effect for 7 mana but if you have glorious anthems in play a martial coup for 3-4 is just as good combined with mirrorweave can be just as deadly
I disagree with a few picks: P1P4 Hissing Iguanar (I also like Grixis Battlemage but I think the Iguanar is better), P1P8 I would have hated Steward but I have no experiencie with the Astrolabe outside Esper, P1P9 I would have hated the Knight because 99% of the time I won't be playing Cancel (I actually prefer offcolor cyclers) and P3P7 I think the Sphere is the correct pick. I'm still not sure about cards like wretched banquet and suicidal charge so I can't comment on that.
So in the end grixis battlemage over iguanar and hellspark over sphere are the only real mistakes. Some people actually like Cancel. The astrolabe could be fantastic in the right deck (so even just hating it might ruin someone's draft when they were expecting it to come back). It's to early to judge correctly cards like wretched banquet (a removal spell that has a big limitation) and suicidal charge (is it too slow?). I'm sure the banquet must be good in a deck full of removal and some big creatures but how good is it in an very aggro deck?
But even though I prefer Iguanar to the battlemage, I don't think they're that far off in power level. They're actually close. And he probably hasn't played with the sphere enough to take hellspark elemental over sphere (or maybe I and most people underrate hellspark and it can actually be pretty good) so he opted for the elemental. I don't think these 2 picks ruin the draft in any way and they might be closer than people think.
Everyone has his own style of drafting and even if you disagree on some picks, if you look at the article with an open mind, you can always learn something.
Why are you so high on Martial Coup for this deck? Are you really expecting to reliably get to 7 mana?
I disagree with several of your picks, but A) you won and B) you're probably a better drafter
than I am; so I won't try to argue the picks.
The only thing I've really got to add is that some commentary on your thought process for each
pick (why you picked it over other cards, what you were considering at each stage, etc) would
really flesh out the article. As is, it feels a little light and a bit confusing (especially for
weaker drafters trying to get better).
Even thos I agree with most of your picks, i would have really like to see some comentaries about them. In this state it feels like the article is incomplete.
WTG on your draft.
I agree on the sphere being a good pick (P3P7): early it will help fix your mana base, late it will thin lands. Especially since you already had Nicol Bolas in your pile.
gotta give you props for having no shame and posting a 1-3 tourney report
I've never picked a Battlemage 10th-12th.I would be really happy to get it anyway that late. I see 3 choices for me in that pack: Tar Fiend , Hissing Iguanar and Grixis Battlemage. I'm receiving a 4th pick Tar Fiend,Iguanar and Grixis so Im felling good about either Grixis or Jund.Wild Nacatl and Jungle Weaver are not worth even mentioning there. Tell me how good is Tidehollow Sculler in limited?I mean , im BR at least at the moment with the Agony Warp sitting there and you tell me I should have picked the Sculler? a WB card thats its not that important in this format since it will be sitting there untilits killed. Yes they have to trow removal at them but still its a creature and they have killed it.Tar fiend is good when you have enough creatures and cards like Dragon fodder so its a situational pick. The land is obviously good but Im not planning on branching out since Im getting a steady flow of good in color cards. Also speaking about picking a card that may have helped splashing a card I didnt pick seems odd.
I consider myself an above average limited player. I played the Astrolabe several times both in AAA and AAC in grixis or esper and I felt good about it everytime. Most of the times its a self cycler and the other times it a card advantage engine turning a dying creature into a new card.Especially good in Esper but also nice with enough artifacts or Puppet Conjurer. I dont see how playing it means my deck is bad.
ummm if you're playing astrolabe your deck is bad, and if you're not in esper it's even worse. :(
regardless, you can always get that card in the 10th-12th pick range. tar fiend is an excellent card, iguanar might even be better. the land was also not a bad pick had you taken it, you may have wanted to maybe splash that jund charm you would pass later on and the land would have helped with it. sculler also would have been a better choice. the bottom line is that the battlemage was the 6th best card in the pack and you still took it. i can't say you drafted poorly though because triple alchemist with an aggro deck like yours is usually too good for anyone to compete, but i'm willing to bet iguanar would have definitely been better in your deck after reading about how your matches went.
The astrolabe is a decent card since I can pick out a Puppet Conjurer to turn into a nice card advantage engine or even some Parasitic Strix in Conflux.Also hate picking Steward of Valeron or Welkin Guide is not worth it since I can pick something that can go into my deck.
and then you took astrolabe over hating a steward and welkin guide... and then you took hellspark over sphere? ask any pro about sphere, but you could make the argument that your deck was fast beats and didn't need the fix (which i still disagree with). also i can't see taking the charge over the 2/2 outlander or wretched banquet (probably most underrated removal in the format). nice job winning though.
Well I dont know what experience you have in this format but the battlemage is actually a pretty solid card. Filtering your deck or removing a potencial blocker from combat, both really relevant abilities in the limited format.
third pick grixis battlemage? i stopped reading... that card sux
MTGO Name: Rerepete
Deck Name:
Deadly Looks
Looks Deadly
If Looks Could Kill
Look Ma, No Hands
Domain is a more casual deck type. The tournament scene is very fast and furious and aggressive. Domain on its own does nothing. Once you achieve it, you have to play cards that take advantage of it. Which requires time. Which you won't have in tournaments.
LE