I'm glad that you'll be saying something at the end of games now, because for a guy who says he's into interaction, I've always found you a bit taciturn, dare I say, aloof. It's good for pdc that you're more vocal in here and in the forums. I found this a very interesting read. As for Skred and GH, I think they may have initially been underated due to the general stigma of Coldsnap (which is still hated in my local area, even though Skred has made it into standard recently).
This article says a lot of things that I've thought but have been afraid to express. I know I'm not a good player by any means: out of 35 events listed for me in Gatherling, I've only reached the finals 3 times and haven't won a single time. I choose decks based on what I enjoy playing instead of what is the most powerful in a meta, rarely try to discover flaws in my play, and certainly get emotionally invested in the entire experience (and nothing ruins the mood like saying "Good Game" after losing to a fluke draw).
As for arguing what cards are good and what cards are bad, it's certainly hard to look into the future and say for sure which is which. While I'm perplexed as to how people could have possibly missed Skred and Grim Harvest when Coldsnap released, I must admit that I'm still unsure as to which cards of Shards of Alara will be able to make a similar impact in the new Standard. For all I know cards from Lorwyn and Shadowmoor will see a unexpected surge in popularity due to the new set of cards as well as the loss of the Time Spiral cards that may have inhibited them in the past.
Your article nails it on the head despite the circular argument: good cards are good, bad cards are bad. While I can't say for certain what is good and what is bad without having seen the cards in action and what sort of metagame develops, I still take the time to speculate on cards like Gift of the Gargantuan as I feel learning how my predictions are right or wrong and what I should be looking for in the future when trying to determine good or bad cards. I expect to make mistakes, and I ought to become at least a little better at PDC for it.
Also, thanks for defending Gift of the Gargantuan, for what it's worth. It's not perfect, but it's not often that Green gets a potential draw-two, and I relish the opportunity to try it and see if it lives up to my expectations.
Ive been reading your drafts present and past ever since i got you with that insaneo w/b deck in sse a month or 2 back. I think your deck was fine as you had some really good creatures but im most impressed with how many times you mulled. It was exactly right to mull all those hands and the fact that you recognised it is a goopd indication that your becoming a stronger player.
if it were me though i woulda taken the click over the plumveil though as mr. card advantage is pretty bonkers and plumeveil is hard to cast unless your mono or just w/u.
Chosen name is Forest Fire. With that in mind, I lean heavily towards specific card choices: I want to max out on Kindle due to the name of the deck, and Kindle, like Muscle Sliver, asks to be a 4x. 4x Seeker of Skybreak represents the (Skyshroud) Forest and 4x Fireslinger represents the Fire - and they interact very well with each other.
I also want to put some (3x) Sandstone warriors and some (3x) Crown of Flames, as they have *FIRE* breathing (again linking to the deck name). The warriors elegantly combine first strike with the in-built pump (and yes, I know the ability isn't formally named fire breathing). I know many look down on auras, but the Crown of Flames can avoid the 2-for-1 downside if played with care. Good lessons for new players! Harrow as a 3x, puts the *FOREST* to go with the above *FIRE* (in flavor and also gameplay terms - read on). Harrow over Rampant growth wasn't tough, and I also decided on harrow over the Skyshroud Elf (Elf would interact with Seeker, and would be another body). Harrow fits the Forest Fire theme better IMO - notice that with the 3x Warriors and 3x Flames, players will often cast Harrow, sacrifice a forest and get two mountains. Harrow is an instant and puts the lands into play untapped (unlike Growth) - 2 untapped mountains at instant speed goes well with attacking or blocking Sandstone Warriors (or anything equipped with Crown of Flames). Harrow doubles as a (situational) combat trick in this deck! A minor advantage of Harrow over the other options: Harrow is better at thinning lands out of the deck, something that is good to impart on new players, even if it is subtle.
That is 25 non-land cards that are the core of the deck. Now I round out the deck with some variety. I think some Fanatics are a must, they are iconic and also help the Kindles and Slingers - I settled on just two Fanatics as they aren't integral to the deck. Buyback is one of Tempest memorable mechanics, thus the 2x Elvish fury which also gives some much needed instant pump effect (and a good place to put extra mana in the mid to late game). Spikes were a big part of the identity of Tempest green, thus 2x Spike Drone - they make for interesting combat decisions (I think 2x Drones is better than 1x Spike Drone + 1x Mogg Raider).
That leaves me at 31 non-land cards. 1x Pincher Beetles may look odd in the deck. It is a bit bad in the deck as it can't be targetted with several of the beneficial effects - that is exactly why I included it. Players get a taste of shroud and how it can sometimes be a negative when they can't target their own creature with a pump effect. 1x Rootwalla and 1x Skyshroud Troll completes the top end creatures of the deck (along with the 3x Sandstone Warriors). I put 1x Frog tongue and 1x stun as token cantrips; many times it is correct to cantrip Tongue by casting it on an oppoent's creature (this deck has no fliers), which is a good lesson in being open minded. The humble Stun can sometimes win games. Speaking of winning the game, 1x Rolling thunder represents the Red X spell family which can turn games around - or win on the spot. I also wanted 1 non-creature artifact. I thought about Squee's Toy, but I opted on Lotus Petal. I hope it will show players that sometimes the extra speed is worth a card - but many times, it isn't worth it (Petal also helps very slightly with color fixing). Red has been getting these sort of "ritual" effects, so I thought one petal belonged in the deck. Even though the petal doesn't stick around after use, with 2 lands (even mountains) and 1 petal you can still cast a harrow to get you out of a tight spot. Finally, due to the not Sliver centric deck name, I settled on 1x Coiled Tinviper for artifact creature. With the amount of combat tricks, the first strike is very relevant, whereas Metallic Sliver is only good when you have a Muscle Sliver in play.
The curve of the deck thus far tops at 4 mana, so think 23 lands is plenty (there are 3 harrows there, as well). I don't want to go below 23 as the deck is still 2 colors, and you need 3 mana to cast Harrow. If the deck gets too many lands there are multiple ways to put the extra mana to good use. The deck is heavier on Red than on Green, putting me at 12 Mountains and 11 Forests. Green can get you mountains whereas Red cannot get you forest, so I kept the land mix approximately quite even despite the stronger red requirements.
Here is my deck submission. I have given this a good deal of effort to tie the deck into the name (I didn't submit a deck until the name was chosen for that reason). I wanted to have at the same time strong sinergy and variety, and I think I have reached that goal.
Congrats on making it back to the finals! Shuffler can be a pain in the arse sometimes but I was glad to see you starting to get a handle on this format!
This was great article, I personally found it the most enjoyable Tarmotog article todate - probably because there was some event content. It must be hard to continually churn out articles for an underplayed format, but you show that with content from events you are a skill writer and have produced a great article. I am not sure the interlude about your quest to secure the med2 duals was necessary in an already long article, but i loved your analysis of the T8 decklists and your tourney report was a great read.
I hope that these two formats, Singleton60 and Singleton100 receive more support and that more events fire so you can continue bring this great content.
Bitterblossom was a hard cut to make.Like psychatog, testing just proved that it didn't belong in the deck. Counterbalance is just awful without top.Eyeblights ending is not good in a meta where you could face any random aggro tribe and I did in face play vs elves in round 2(?). In a black heavy meta I would probably play rend flesh over it anyway. Mouth of ronom should have been in there.
Nice report!(I am definitely going to try out your deck, looks fun)
This deck provides a strong sliver basis with support from other creatures (Spike Drone), enchantments (Giant Strength), and instants (Elvish Fury). A quick creature attack is backed up through direct damage spells that can support attacking creatures or deliver a finishing blow to your opponent.
As a starter/theme deck this deck provides a player with the opportunity to learn to use creatures, artifacts, sorceries, instants, and enchantments. The deck also provides players with an introduction to keywords (Haste and Buyback), abilities with various costs (Rootwalla's mana cost and Fireslinger's tap cost), X spells, direct damage, and combos (Fireslinger plus Seeker of Skybreak).
This deck provides a strong sliver basis with support from other creatures (Spike Drone), enchantments (Giant Strength), and instants (Elvish Fury). A quick creature attack is backed up through direct damage spells that can support attacking creatures or deliver a finishing blow to your opponent.
As a starter/theme deck this deck provides a player with the opportunity to learn to use creatures, artifacts, sorceries, instants, and enchantments. The deck also provides players with an introduction to keywords (Haste and Buyback), abilities with various costs (Rootwalla's mana cost and Fireslinger's tap cost), X spells, direct damage, and combos (Fireslinger plus Seeker of Skybreak).
Yep, you're right that Necro is available in ME2 and can be used in classic - I was looking at things from a Standard/Extended viewpoint, but I should definitely have more clear.
But Necro is definitely NOT banned in Ice Age block, believe it or not.
Legal In Prismatic, Tribal Wars Classic, Online Classic, Singleton, Ice Age Block
I'm glad that you'll be saying something at the end of games now, because for a guy who says he's into interaction, I've always found you a bit taciturn, dare I say, aloof. It's good for pdc that you're more vocal in here and in the forums. I found this a very interesting read. As for Skred and GH, I think they may have initially been underated due to the general stigma of Coldsnap (which is still hated in my local area, even though Skred has made it into standard recently).
?
This article says a lot of things that I've thought but have been afraid to express. I know I'm not a good player by any means: out of 35 events listed for me in Gatherling, I've only reached the finals 3 times and haven't won a single time. I choose decks based on what I enjoy playing instead of what is the most powerful in a meta, rarely try to discover flaws in my play, and certainly get emotionally invested in the entire experience (and nothing ruins the mood like saying "Good Game" after losing to a fluke draw).
As for arguing what cards are good and what cards are bad, it's certainly hard to look into the future and say for sure which is which. While I'm perplexed as to how people could have possibly missed Skred and Grim Harvest when Coldsnap released, I must admit that I'm still unsure as to which cards of Shards of Alara will be able to make a similar impact in the new Standard. For all I know cards from Lorwyn and Shadowmoor will see a unexpected surge in popularity due to the new set of cards as well as the loss of the Time Spiral cards that may have inhibited them in the past.
Your article nails it on the head despite the circular argument: good cards are good, bad cards are bad. While I can't say for certain what is good and what is bad without having seen the cards in action and what sort of metagame develops, I still take the time to speculate on cards like Gift of the Gargantuan as I feel learning how my predictions are right or wrong and what I should be looking for in the future when trying to determine good or bad cards. I expect to make mistakes, and I ought to become at least a little better at PDC for it.
Also, thanks for defending Gift of the Gargantuan, for what it's worth. It's not perfect, but it's not often that Green gets a potential draw-two, and I relish the opportunity to try it and see if it lives up to my expectations.
Didn't see the R/G restriction the first time
Muscle Sliver x4
Elvish Fury x4
Rampant Growth x3
Rootwalla x2
Rootbreaker Wurm x1
Heart Sliver x4
Kindle x4
Canyon Wildcat x3
Fireslinger x2
Wall of Diffusion x1
Metalic Sliver x4
Coiled Tinviper x3
Squee's Toy x1
Lotus Petal x1
Forest x 12
Mountain x11
hgf
asdsadas
sdf
when will it be revealed who the winner was?
email chocolovebox at yahoo.com
11 Forest
11 Mountain
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Kindle
3 Heart Sliver
3 Elvish Fury
2 Mogg Fanatic
2 Spike Drone
2 Rootwalla
2 Fireslinger
2 Trained Armodon
2 Metallic Sliver
2 Lightning Blast
1 Skyshroud Troll
1 Seeker of Skybreak
1 Coiled Tinviper
1 Bayou Dragonfly
1 Giant Strength
1 Blood Frenzy
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Lightning Elemental
1 Pincher Beetle
MTGO user name: Pi Zhan 83
My Deck Entry:
Creatures - 23
4x Muscle sliver
3x Heart sliver
4x Metallic Sliver
2x Lightning Elemental
2x Fireslinger
2x Skyshroud Troll
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Coiled Tinviper
2x Rootwalla
2x Rootbreaker Wurm
Other - 14
3x Rampant Growth
2x Crown of flames
4x Kindle
1x Elvish Fury
1x Broken Fall
2x Lightning Blast
1x Rolling Thunder
Land - 23
11x Moutain
12x Forest
MTGO user name: Pi Zhan 83
Creatures - 23
4x Muscle sliver
3x Heart sliver
4x Metallic Sliver
2x Lightning Elemental
2x Fireslinger
2x Skyshroud Troll
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Coiled Tinviper
2x Rootwalla
2x Rootbreaker Wurm
Other - 14
3x Rampant Growth
2x Crown of flames
4x Kindle
1x Elvish Fury
1x Broken Fall
2x Lightning Blast
1x Rolling Thunder
Land - 23
11x Moutain
12x Forest
Ive been reading your drafts present and past ever since i got you with that insaneo w/b deck in sse a month or 2 back. I think your deck was fine as you had some really good creatures but im most impressed with how many times you mulled. It was exactly right to mull all those hands and the fact that you recognised it is a goopd indication that your becoming a stronger player.
if it were me though i woulda taken the click over the plumveil though as mr. card advantage is pretty bonkers and plumeveil is hard to cast unless your mono or just w/u.
I've got to agree with Tempesteye. Formatting both tables to contin the same data would be much more helpful for comparison purposes.
Other than that, excellent article, like always!
Chosen name is Forest Fire. With that in mind, I lean heavily towards specific card choices: I want to max out on Kindle due to the name of the deck, and Kindle, like Muscle Sliver, asks to be a 4x. 4x Seeker of Skybreak represents the (Skyshroud) Forest and 4x Fireslinger represents the Fire - and they interact very well with each other.
I also want to put some (3x) Sandstone warriors and some (3x) Crown of Flames, as they have *FIRE* breathing (again linking to the deck name). The warriors elegantly combine first strike with the in-built pump (and yes, I know the ability isn't formally named fire breathing).
I know many look down on auras, but the Crown of Flames can avoid the 2-for-1 downside if played with care. Good lessons for new players!
Harrow as a 3x, puts the *FOREST* to go with the above *FIRE* (in flavor and also gameplay terms - read on). Harrow over Rampant growth wasn't tough, and I also decided on harrow over the Skyshroud Elf (Elf would interact with Seeker, and would be another body). Harrow fits the Forest Fire theme better IMO - notice that with the 3x Warriors and 3x Flames, players will often cast Harrow, sacrifice a forest and get two mountains. Harrow is an instant and puts the lands into play untapped (unlike Growth) - 2 untapped mountains at instant speed goes well with attacking or blocking Sandstone Warriors (or anything equipped with Crown of Flames). Harrow doubles as a (situational) combat trick in this deck!
A minor advantage of Harrow over the other options: Harrow is better at thinning lands out of the deck, something that is good to impart on new players, even if it is subtle.
That is 25 non-land cards that are the core of the deck. Now I round out the deck with some variety. I think some Fanatics are a must, they are iconic and also help the Kindles and Slingers - I settled on just two Fanatics as they aren't integral to the deck. Buyback is one of Tempest memorable mechanics, thus the 2x Elvish fury which also gives some much needed instant pump effect (and a good place to put extra mana in the mid to late game). Spikes were a big part of the identity of Tempest green, thus 2x Spike Drone - they make for interesting combat decisions (I think 2x Drones is better than 1x Spike Drone + 1x Mogg Raider).
That leaves me at 31 non-land cards.
1x Pincher Beetles may look odd in the deck. It is a bit bad in the deck as it can't be targetted with several of the beneficial effects - that is exactly why I included it. Players get a taste of shroud and how it can sometimes be a negative when they can't target their own creature with a pump effect.
1x Rootwalla and 1x Skyshroud Troll completes the top end creatures of the deck (along with the 3x Sandstone Warriors).
I put 1x Frog tongue and 1x stun as token cantrips; many times it is correct to cantrip Tongue by casting it on an oppoent's creature (this deck has no fliers), which is a good lesson in being open minded. The humble Stun can sometimes win games.
Speaking of winning the game, 1x Rolling thunder represents the Red X spell family which can turn games around - or win on the spot.
I also wanted 1 non-creature artifact. I thought about Squee's Toy, but I opted on Lotus Petal. I hope it will show players that sometimes the extra speed is worth a card - but many times, it isn't worth it (Petal also helps very slightly with color fixing). Red has been getting these sort of "ritual" effects, so I thought one petal belonged in the deck. Even though the petal doesn't stick around after use, with 2 lands (even mountains) and 1 petal you can still cast a harrow to get you out of a tight spot.
Finally, due to the not Sliver centric deck name, I settled on 1x Coiled Tinviper for artifact creature. With the amount of combat tricks, the first strike is very relevant, whereas Metallic Sliver is only good when you have a Muscle Sliver in play.
The curve of the deck thus far tops at 4 mana, so think 23 lands is plenty (there are 3 harrows there, as well). I don't want to go below 23 as the deck is still 2 colors, and you need 3 mana to cast Harrow. If the deck gets too many lands there are multiple ways to put the extra mana to good use. The deck is heavier on Red than on Green, putting me at 12 Mountains and 11 Forests. Green can get you mountains whereas Red cannot get you forest, so I kept the land mix approximately quite even despite the stronger red requirements.
Here is my deck submission. I have given this a good deal of effort to tie the deck into the name (I didn't submit a deck until the name was chosen for that reason). I wanted to have at the same time strong sinergy and variety, and I think I have reached that goal.
4x Fireslinger
4x Kindle
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Seeker of Skybreak
(16)
3x Harrow
3x Sandstone Warrior
3x Crown of flames
(25)
2x Elvish fury
2x Mogg Fanatic
2x Spike Drone
(31)
1x Coiled Tinviper
1x Lotus Petal
1x Rolling Thunder
1x Rootwalla
1x Skyshroud Troll
1x Stun
(37)
11x Forest
12x Mountain
(60)
As usual, Ivo from the official boards.
Congrats on making it back to the finals! Shuffler can be a pain in the arse sometimes but I was glad to see you starting to get a handle on this format!
Hi Tarmotog, T
This was great article, I personally found it the most enjoyable Tarmotog article todate - probably because there was some event content. It must be hard to continually churn out articles for an underplayed format, but you show that with content from events you are a skill writer and have produced a great article. I am not sure the interlude about your quest to secure the med2 duals was necessary in an already long article, but i loved your analysis of the T8 decklists and your tourney report was a great read.
I hope that these two formats, Singleton60 and Singleton100 receive more support and that more events fire so you can continue bring this great content.
Good Job and nice deck
UTH
1 mogg fanatic
2 skyshroud ranger
3 fireslinger
4 muscle sliver
2 seeker of skybreak
1 bayou dragonfly
3 rootwalla
1 coiled tinviper
1 skyshroud troll
2 lightning elemental
3 elvish fury
4 kindle
2 stun
1 blood frenzy
1 crown of flames
2 lightning blast
2 aftershock
1 rolling thunder
1 lotus petal
12 forest
11 mountain
i can't write copy as well as the marketing team, but this deck is the bee's knees.
jaronheard at gmail dot com
mtgo username: mtgoformacplease
Comments on the Top 8 decks:
Bitterblossom was a hard cut to make.Like psychatog, testing just proved that it didn't belong in the deck. Counterbalance is just awful without top.Eyeblights ending is not good in a meta where you could face any random aggro tribe and I did in face play vs elves in round 2(?). In a black heavy meta I would probably play rend flesh over it anyway. Mouth of ronom should have been in there.
Nice report!(I am definitely going to try out your deck, looks fun)
sorry about that i could of sworn it was banned there. My bad.
My name on the Magic boards and MTGO is also kalandine.
Deck Name: Amalgamated Swarm, Eradication, Eradication by Swarm, Amalgamated Horde, Swarm Domination, Sliver Assualt, or Swarm Assualt
Deck Contents:
10 Forest
12 Mountain
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Heart Sliver
3 Metallic Sliver
2 Rootwalla
3 Spike Drone
2 Fireslinger
2 Seeker of Skybreak
2 Trained Armodon
1 Lightning Elemental
2 Giant Strength
3 Elvish Fury
2 Rolling Thunder
2 Blood Frenzy
4 Kindle
2 Lightning Blast
This deck provides a strong sliver basis with support from other creatures (Spike Drone), enchantments (Giant Strength), and instants (Elvish Fury). A quick creature attack is backed up through direct damage spells that can support attacking creatures or deliver a finishing blow to your opponent.
As a starter/theme deck this deck provides a player with the opportunity to learn to use creatures, artifacts, sorceries, instants, and enchantments. The deck also provides players with an introduction to keywords (Haste and Buyback), abilities with various costs (Rootwalla's mana cost and Fireslinger's tap cost), X spells, direct damage, and combos (Fireslinger plus Seeker of Skybreak).
-Mike
My name on the Magic boards and MTGO is also kalandine.
Deck Name: Amalgamated Swarm, Eradication by Swarm, Amalgamated Horde, Swarm Domination, or Swarm Assualt
Deck Contents:
10 Forest
12 Mountain
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Heart Sliver
3 Metallic Sliver
2 Rootwalla
3 Spike Drone
2 Fireslinger
2 Seeker of Skybreak
2 Trained Armodon
1 Lightning Elemental
2 Giant Strength
3 Elvish Fury
2 Rolling Thunder
2 Blood Frenzy
4 Kindle
2 Lightning Blast
This deck provides a strong sliver basis with support from other creatures (Spike Drone), enchantments (Giant Strength), and instants (Elvish Fury). A quick creature attack is backed up through direct damage spells that can support attacking creatures or deliver a finishing blow to your opponent.
As a starter/theme deck this deck provides a player with the opportunity to learn to use creatures, artifacts, sorceries, instants, and enchantments. The deck also provides players with an introduction to keywords (Haste and Buyback), abilities with various costs (Rootwalla's mana cost and Fireslinger's tap cost), X spells, direct damage, and combos (Fireslinger plus Seeker of Skybreak).
-Mike
Big props to Walkerdog for the loan of some key cards in the 4cthresh deck. Thx much.
whiffy penguin:
Yep, you're right that Necro is available in ME2 and can be used in classic - I was looking at things from a Standard/Extended viewpoint, but I should definitely have more clear.
But Necro is definitely NOT banned in Ice Age block, believe it or not.
Legal In Prismatic, Tribal Wars Classic, Online Classic, Singleton, Ice Age Block
The only thing I really have to say, is that the relic is great Goyf hate. Turn the 5/6 monster into a 0/1 wuss. Crypt doesn't do that.